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From "Eddie O'Neil" <ekon...@bea.com>
Subject Re: Tomcat upgrade (WAS: Ant upgrade?)
Date Mon, 09 Aug 2004 15:52:31 GMT
Sebastian (and others interested in the topic)--

  I completely agree that we should generally let Beehive devs and users 
consume various versions of Tomcat and Ant.  We're just not there yet in 
the build / test infrastructure, though I don't think that it would be 
much work to make it possible.

  In general, the third-party libraries consumed by Beehive seem to fall 
into three categories:

- libraries that are part of a Beehive distribution including:
    - XMLBeans
    - Velocity (used for codegen when compiling Controls)
    - Log4j
    - Struts and the associated Jakarta Commons libraries
- libraries Beehive uses and needs to control versions of but aren't in 
the distribution
    - JUnit
    - various HttpClient / HttpUnit / misc testing tools
    - JDK 1.5
- libraries that Beehive needs to set baseline versions of but not 
directly control
    - Ant (at least 1.6.2)
    - Tomcat (at least 5.x)

  APIs in the first category are really part of Beehive itself and the 
versions that ship with Beehive need to be controlled by Beehive devs.  
In some cases, these libraries are still under active development 
including XMLBeans v2 and Struts 1.2.  As a result, these libraries will 
rev from time to time in order to consume new versions.  And, these 
libraries can't easily be swapped out for another version (older or 
newer) of the same library.

  APIs in the second category are those that Beehive uses for testing / 
documentation that are checked into the Beehive tree but don't ship as 
part of the distribution.  The versions of these will be controlled by 
the owners of the tools that use them; for example, if we encounter a 
bug in Xalan 2.4.1 that prevents NetUI from generating the tag ref 
documentation, we'll need to consider upgrading.  In addition, we'll 
need to rev the JDK as new versions of 1.5 / 5.0 are released by Sun.

  The final set of software is that in question -- Ant and Tomcat.  In 
general, I agree that Beehive devs (and users!) should be able to use 
varying versions of Ant and Tomcat.  We may still need to set minimum 
versions for these -- for example, Ant 1.6.2 works with the 
<junitreport> task and JDK 1.5, which is important for NetUI devs.  For 
Tomcat, Beehive requires a JSP 2.0 container but shouldn't mandate a 
specific point release of Tomcat.

  In general, the use of JDK 1.5 is going to mandate updates of the JDK 
and some of the supporting software (like Ant).  As we go along here, 
we'll gain stability in the libraries, but there will still be the 
occasional churn of things like XMLBeans and Struts as we consume and 
add new versions of libraries that ship with Beehive.

  Hope that sheds some light on some thinking here; any other thoughts / 
comments?

Eddie


Sebastian Gozin wrote:

> I think I agree with this. Is there a specific reason why we need to 
> have the latest and greatest version of tomcat or ant? I have 
> broadband so downloading large files isn't so much a problem for me. 
> Still I know these kind of tools get new versions quite fast so I'm 
> guessing you will get tired of updating beehive after 2, 3 times.
>
> It would probably be easier if you let developers specify the location 
> of their own tomcat and ant installation. Let them worry about the 
> version to run. You can always make a mention in the README about what 
> minimum version they should use.
> I think we can already do this though by pointing ANT_HOME and 
> CATALINA_HOME to a different installation.
>
> Sebastian
>
>
> Rahul wrote:
>
>> Just a few thoughts:
>>
>> I think we should upgrade only if there are "strong" reasons to do 
>> that. I
>> understand there will be numerous bug fixes and improvements to Ant., 
>> Tomcat
>> and other external libs that we use, but the point is to baseline a 
>> version
>> for development(unless we are hitting a "show stopper" block). Of 
>> course,
>> developers should be able to use alternate versions of Ant , 
>> Tomcat...etc if
>> they like but the project should be built and test against what is  
>> "base
>> lined".
>>
>> The other thing(and probably not a biggie for fellow developers with 
>> high
>> speed connections)  are SVN updates.It takes ages to update libraries,
>> especially with a dialup (unfortunately i am on one !). I'd suggest  
>> that an
>> interested developer should be able to download the requisite libs by
>> himself and I think its faster (using a download manager) than svn 
>> and would
>> make getting Beehive sources quick !! A readme file could be added to 
>> the
>> project about getting requisite libs from URLs. OR the other thing 
>> can be to
>> place the project dependencies separate from the source and these can be
>> downloaded in case anyone does not wishes to get dependencies from 
>> different
>> URLs.
>>
>> Cheers,
>>
>> Rahul
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Eddie O'Neil" <ekoneil@bea.com>
>> To: "Beehive Developers" <beehive-dev@incubator.apache.org>
>> Sent: Friday, August 06, 2004 8:22 AM
>> Subject: Re: Tomcat upgrade (WAS: Ant upgrade?)
>>
>>
>>  
>>
>>> I'll take care of this in the next day or two assuming there are no
>>> objections.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Kyle Marvin wrote:
>>>
>>>   
>>>
>>>> NetUI tests should be good enough... there is no significant Tomcat
>>>>     
>>>
>> integration in the Controls runtime other than a dependency on basic 
>> servlet
>> filter functionality for container integration.
>>  
>>
>>>> -- Kyle
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>     
>>>>
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: Heather Stephens
>>>>> Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2004 2:18 PM
>>>>> To: Beehive Developers
>>>>> Subject: Tomcat upgrade (WAS: Ant upgrade?)
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Would anybody have time to give Tomcat 5.0.27 a test drive and see 
>>>>> how
>>>>> it goes?
>>>>>
>>>>> At a minimum it seems we should run both checkin tests/DRTs and the
>>>>> battery of Beehive-NetUI tests.  Should we run anything in the 
>>>>> control
>>>>> test suite as well?
>>>>>
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: Ias [mailto:iasandcb@hotmail.com]
>>>>> Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2004 7:27 AM
>>>>> To: 'Beehive Developers'
>>>>> Subject: RE: Ant upgrade?
>>>>>
>>>>> What about Tomcat? Its 5.0.27 stable version is now available.
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>
>>>>> Ias
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>       
>>>>>
>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>> From: Eddie O'Neil [mailto:ekoneil@bea.com]
>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2004 3:18 PM
>>>>>> To: Beehive Developers
>>>>>> Subject: Re: Ant upgrade?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I'm doing this now.  Will let everyone know when it's finished.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> After that, you'll need to update your Ant install on your next
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>         
>>>>>
>>>>> sync.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>       
>>>>>
>>>>>> Eddie
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Heather Stephens wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>         
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Nobody raised objections.  Eddie would you mind doing the honors?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>> From: Eddie O'Neil
>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, July 27, 2004 5:05 PM
>>>>>>> To: Beehive Developers
>>>>>>> Subject: Re: Ant upgrade?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> In smoke testing this just now, an "ant clean deploy
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>           
>>>>>>
>>>>> drt" runs fine
>>>>> on
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>       
>>>>>
>>>>>>> 1.6.2.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Eddie
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Heather Stephens wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>           
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Hey crew -
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Ant 1.6.2 is available.  (http://ant.apache.org/)
>>>>>>>> Does anybody object to doing an upgrade from 1.6.1?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> H.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>             
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>           
>>>>>>
>>>>>       
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>     
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>  
>>
>
>

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