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From "Martijn Dashorst" <>
Subject Re: Git forking for fun and profit
Date Thu, 01 May 2008 16:05:47 GMT
On 5/1/08, Matthieu Riou <> wrote:
>  > I'm not keen to restart the git discussion again. Using a DSCM is
>  > according to a lot of folks within the foundation antithetical to the
>  > Apache Way. There are others who claim that this Apache Way is based
>  > too much on the svn workflow. In either case: git is not supported,
>  > nor will it be anytime this decade for Apache development.
> Seems to me that you're generalizing the "we stick with SVN" opinion to
>  "dSCM is always evil". Am I not free anymore to use whatever I want to
>  develop on my machine?

No, I summarized the discussion's two antagonist opinions: one states
that dscm is antithetical to the Apache Way, the other states that the
Apache Way is too constrained by Apache's use of svn (or cvs). Of
course this doesn't do justice to all opinions voiced in the ~500
messages that transpired in februari.

You are free to use whatever you want, as long as the Apache related
stuff works according the Apache Way (tm). According to many, the
Apache Way is using a centralized repository, with all development
happening in that repository, open to the public. They fear creating
block commits, pulling in code without due process (i.e. CLA, SG, or
JIRA donation) and a community that works the Linux way instead of the
Apache way.

> I tend to agree with you. But sometimes being overly conservative leads to
> sclerosis. There's a balance to find here.

IMHO actively promoting forking is far from being overly conservative.

> Of course it's better if things happen in a single and strong community but if
> someone wants to take buildr, extend it to support their own proprietary
> repository structure and distribute it under whatever license they see fit,
> then so be it.

But buildr is still a podling, which means that there is still a lot
of work to do before it is a strong community. Otherwise no argument
here, this is why I like the ASL.

> It's good for buildr and it's good for them.

I don't think this is good for buildr that is trying to build a
community that works the Apache way. How does forking the
community/code base foster a meritocratic, open and diverse Buildr
community at Apache?

Note that I don't consider git-svn to be evil, or want to prohibit it.
I haven't worked with dscm's so I'm pretty neutral on this point. I do
think that one should really be careful with promoting forking of code
bases, especially when you are trying to build a community. I also
consider the effect on buildr's graduation of a git based workflow. As
a lot of folks have voiced their concerns regarding the use of dscm's
within Apache, and those folks are also going to look at buildr's way
of working in the Apache Way, taking it slow and low profile is my


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