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From "Assaf Arkin" <ar...@intalio.com>
Subject Re: Graduation process
Date Tue, 23 Sep 2008 18:08:52 GMT
On Tue, Sep 23, 2008 at 10:44 AM, Matthieu Riou <matthieu@offthelip.org> wrote:
> On Tue, Sep 23, 2008 at 8:59 AM, Alex Boisvert <boisvert@intalio.com> wrote:
>
>> Charter by triangulation:
>>
>> "... that the Apache Buildr project be responsible for the creation and
>> maintenance of build system, software configuration and software lifecycle
>> management related tools."
>>
>
> I would say the net is too wide. Maven, Ant, Make or Rake could all qualify.
> A bit of overlap is not necessarily a problem but that would be a complete
> overlap. I'd look for something a bit more discriminating with wordings like
> scripting based, multi-language or dependency management.

+1

Instead of aspiring to be another TLA, I think we should focus on what
makes Buildr better.  Scripting is the big differentiator, not any
specific feature (multi-lingual, dependency management, etc).  But
it's not a goal, it's the way we cut down on the boring and tedious
work, and make the rest easier and fun.

Builds tend to be very repetitive for the most part, but also very
specific with a lot of one-of and ad hoc customization.  No two builds
are the same, snowflakes and such.

So one thing you need in a build system: convenience, framework that
does the heavy lifting, defaults, reusable components, all standard
fare that cuts down on repetitive work and boilerplate.  When you
write compile.with my_depends there's a lot of stuff happening in the
background to take care of business.

On the other hand, Buildr is very self-service: you should be able to
solve every build problem without waiting for the next release,
without struggling with pre-fab components and their limited
configuration.  That's why underneath there's a scripting language,
let imagination be the limit.

Assaf

>
> Ant has its resolution on its web site and I fished the Maven one from what
> feels like another century, when the board meetings where much shorter than
> now:
>
> http://ant.apache.org/mission.html
> http://www.apache.org/foundation/records/minutes/2003/board_minutes_2003_02_26.txt
>
> IMO they're both very good examples of what we shouldn't do :) Both reflect
> an older time when the foundation was much smaller, we should know better
> now.
>
> Matthieu
>
>
>
>> alex
>>
>> PS: I don't like the definitions of SCM and SLM in wikipedia.  They sound
>> like they were written by vendors with a very narrow vision.   You could
>> say
>> SLM has almost become a euphemism for Enterprise Grade DRM <tm>.
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Sep 23, 2008 at 8:54 AM, Matthieu Riou <matthieu@offthelip.org
>> >wrote:
>>
>> > Hi guys,
>> >
>> > So it seems that everybody agrees it's time to get ready for graduation.
>> > There's a nice guide that details the whole process here:
>> >
>> > http://incubator.apache.org/guides/graduation.html
>> >
>> > The trickiest part is to prepare a resolution for the board to adopt.
>> > Ultimately, that's what we will vote on, what the incubator PMC will vote
>> > on
>> > and what the board adopts. And the trickiest parts in the resolution
>> itself
>> > are:
>> >
>> >   - The target: Top Level Project or subproject of another TLP. For
>> buildr
>> >   I think it would be TLP but if someone things otherwise it's a good
>> time
>> > to
>> >   mention it.
>> >   - The charter: this should define the scope of the project. It should
>> be
>> >   short, sweet and non ambiguous but sufficiently large in scope to cover
>> >   further expansion of the project. So getting the proper wording can be
>> >   tough. There are example here [1] and if you want more I can point you
>> to
>> >   others.
>> >   - The project chair: I'll send another e-mail about that.
>> >   - The future PMC: actually that's the easiest, it's usually the same
>> >   composition as the PPMC.
>> >
>> > So at this point, it would be nice if someone drafted a first charter
>> > paragraph so we can increment from it. The rest of the resolution can
>> > easily
>> > be created using the charter and a few names.
>> >
>> > Thanks,
>> > Matthieu
>> >
>> > [1] http://incubator.apache.org/guides/graduation.html#tlp-resolution
>> >
>>
>

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