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From Bill Graham <>
Subject Re: [DISCUSS] Applying commit-then-review
Date Tue, 14 Sep 2010 21:22:16 GMT
I think this is a good discussion to have, even if we decide not to
change our process.

> The svn commit log and the chukwa-commit mailing list give you an easy
way to access patches.

I like the possibility of being able to commit without making a patch
file and attaching it to a JIRA, so digging into this a bit more...

Looking at "Subversion Commits" tab, let's use Eric's large CHUKWA-444
commit as an example. If he hadn't made a patch file, would there be
an easy way for a Chukwa user to get a patch of the diff from JIRA
(i.e., without having to check out the source and pipe an svn diff
between the revisions to a file)? If so, that would be ideal.

On Tue, Sep 14, 2010 at 3:17 AM, Bernd Fondermann
<> wrote:
> On Mon, Sep 13, 2010 at 22:50, Bill Graham <> wrote:
>> I can see advantages to both CTR and RTC. For bugs and even modest
>> changes, yes CTR seems fine. Recent examples where I would have
>> preferred to do that include:
>> Bigger changes though, especially ones that have an external face on
>> them, like the recent REST API features, are good to have more of a
>> feedback gathering RTC phase, like these:
>> A few questions a have though about CTR:
>> - Bernd, from your initial comments it sounds like in some cases you
>> don't even have a JIRA filed with the commit. Is that the case? I've
>> always thought that a commit should really have a JIRA just for
>> tracking, but I can change that thinking. Can you elaborate on how you
>> see JIRA playing into CTR?
> Before we had JIRA at the ASF (only bugzilla, which is no fun at all
> IMHO), we did CTR without filing issues, of course.
> Sometimes, patches where attached on-list.
> Today, most projects indeed file a JIRA for everything, to benefit
> from fully JIRA-generated release notes etc.
> CTR works great with JIRA:
> + Create JIRA issue
> + commit a patch, using the JIRA name ("CHUKWA-1234") in the commit log message
> + JIRA automatically detects and attaches the svn change log to the
> issue (see the "subversion commits" tab in JIRA)
> (+ iterate with more commits)
> + Close the issue (, reopen etc.)
>> - Similarly, it sounds like patches aren't needed with CTR. The
>> downside of this is that others can't easily apply the patch to a
>> release distribution and rebuild (something I do all the time). I'd
>> think if it's worth committing, it's worth having a patch file for
>> others to apply. Any thoughts around this?
> The svn commit log and the chukwa-commit mailing list give you an easy
> way to access patches.
>> I generally like the discussion around how to become more agile
>> though, since I see many benefits to be had there. I recently skimmed
>> some of the CTR discussion on the apache site and thought to myself
>> that that sounds different than what we're doing.
> Well, with this discussion thread I just meant to spin CTR. If RTC (or
> any relaxed derivative thereof) is the way *you* as committers want to
> go ahead, I definitively support it.
> I don't mean to discrupt any well-established process just for the
> sake of disruption.
>  Bernd
>> On Mon, Sep 13, 2010 at 1:14 PM, Ariel Rabkin <> wrote:
>>> Our methodology is actually some hybrid; something like "wait for
>>> potential review", then commit.  Usually I'll commit after a few days
>>> if nobody objected or commented.  (I try to say explicitly when I'll
>>> time out waiting for comments.)  And most of the patch review is
>>> fairly cursory.
>>> I agree that the full rigor of RTC is probably unnecessary.  I do like
>>> it, however, for bigger changes, particularly those that alter the
>>> architecture or user visible feature set.
>>> Is it reasonable to say "for bugs, CTR is fine, and only file a JIRA
>>> and wait for review if it's going to break something"?
>>> --Ari
>>> On Mon, Sep 13, 2010 at 12:58 PM, Bernd Fondermann
>>> <> wrote:
>>> > Hi,
>>> >
>>> > If I understand correctly, Chukwa is following the review-then-commit
>>> > (RTC) pattern: Before every commit, a patch gets posted to a JIRA and
>>> > only on positive feedback it is committed.
>>> > As far as I can see, this is inherited from Hadoop's policies.
>>> > However, most projects at the ASF apply commit-then-review (CTR). CTR
>>> > has the advantage of being more agile, requiring less work (creating
>>> > issue, patch file, attaching it, waiting for feedback etc.) while
>>> > providing full oversight:
>>> > Every commit is reviewed by other committers after it happened, can be
>>> > discussed, reverted, improved etc. as a 'work in progress'.
>>> > It is best practice in CTR-mode to selectively use RTC, e.g. for big
>>> > patches or for potentially delicate commits.
>>> >
>>> > I think Chukwa would profit from changing to CTR, so I'd like to know
>>> > what you think about it.
>>> >
>>> > Thanks,
>>> >
>>> >   Bernd
>>> >
>>> --
>>> Ari Rabkin
>>> UC Berkeley Computer Science Department

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