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From joern turner <>
Subject Re: JXForms vs. Woody vs. KISS
Date Mon, 27 Oct 2003 10:36:08 GMT

Oleg Dulin wrote:
> Dear Fellow Cocoon Users:
> I am frequently asked by my peers at work about possible uses for 
> JXForms and Woody. I've evaluated both and I found that neither is 
> standards compliant (and please, don't flame me yet, hear me out), 
> JXForms is deprecated and Woody will not be stable at least until C2.2 .
> XForms compliance, at least partial, is very important because we can't 
> ask the developers to learn a yet another XML grammar when one form 
> processing grammar is already in the works at W3C. For that matter, I 
> think it is not a good idea to ask developers in general to learn a yet 
> another form processing grammar.
XForms is a W3C Recommendation already. - and i would agree with you 
here - standards conformance *is* an important thing.

> So, what is a Cocoon advocate to do ? I was able to achieve adequate 
> form processing functionality using RequestGenerator, 
> FormValidatorAction, XSLT, XSLT extensions in Java and very very very 
> minimal XSP actions. The advantage is that no new XML grammar was 
> involved except for XSP and the output of RequestGenerator, both of 
> which are perfectly reasonable as they are very specific to their own 
> very narrow "areas of expertise."
> Another approach is  which I have 
> looked at briefly, but found the same flaw as with JXForms and Woody -- 
> a requirement that server side code is written.  IMO, the amount of
> server side code should be minimized, which once again is possible for 
> most simple flows using RequestGenerator,Form Validator and XSLT.
what do you mean by 'a requirement that server side code is written'?

all you have to write is the form itself - Chiba is a generic form 
processing engine.

Chicoon - the Cocoon integration of Chiba - is a Cocoon Action and can 
be used anywhere in your pipelines. a new version of it which integrates 
the latest Chiba version is on the way. if you're really looking for 
standards you should maybe have a closer look at it.

i'm still having problems understanding what you're exactly looking for. 
- a XForms-like but easy solution with minimal server-side code? why do 
you care *where* the code is executed as long as its done correctly?

just trying to understand your needs to improve our solution.

Joern Turner

> Anyway, I am not criticizing woody or JXForms. I am simply seeking 
> opinions on the subject other than my own. Any input is greatly 
> appreciated.
> Kind regards,
> Oleg
> Personal Software Practices Wiki -
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