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From Marc Portier <>
Subject Re: cocoon alternative
Date Fri, 12 Mar 2004 13:47:43 GMT

if you want you can steal some slides/pics/ideas from a presentation I 
recently gave for xml user's group in Belgium

pdf here:

I summarized the basic points it tries to get accross in this weblog 


Arnaud De Brem wrote:

> Thanks, but what the advantage of Struts against Coccon2.1 + Forms.

+ FlowScript, don't forget

> In my opinion , Cocoon2.1 + Forms is more attractive because represent 
> MVC+ sparation of Logic / Content /Style (is right ???)

I personally find the MVC term a bit overused in the web context, but 
appart from that: yes, it basically boils down to a more rigid 
separation of concerns.  The cost of this more elaborate separation 
however is a beast with a higher threshold/learning curve (it's 
generalizing quite a bit, but it would be hard to find the metrics to 
objectively deny that struts is overal _easier_ then cocoon)

Trying to pin down the two main discrimiating factors I would say Cocoon 
  is doing two things in a very unique way

- sax pipelines
   - in stead of one JSP per view
   - in stead of chained servlet filters (SAX/XML allows for 
semi-structured communication between the publishing components in a 
streaming manner, while the servlet filters require one to do buffering 
and parsing/serializing between each component)

- continuations based controller logic

for the other two bullets of my blog entry
- uri-design: IMHO there is room for an endless discussion on the 
benefits of noting it in the struts-config (with wildcards in 1.1) vs 
our beloved sitemap. Personally I think both projects found a syntax 
that best fitted the rest of the framework, but are essentially doing 
the same thing

- form framework: the fact that the struts people saw the pain too has 
lead to JSP IMHO. Again a lot of similarities in the big-picture 
responsibilities. Our version is just more in-line with the rest of the 
cocoon-way-of-live and blends ever more nicely with the sax pipelines 
and the flowscript.

> The presentation is for a company who use a lot of XML data (and many 
> type of representation (HTML, PDF, SVG, etc..)

IMHO given this bias selling Cocoon over struts should be a no-brainer.

lots of success with doing that :-)

Marc Portier                  
Outerthought - Open Source, Java & XML Competence Support Center
Read my weblog at                          

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