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From Alejandro Martinez Marcos <>
Subject RE: Coccon vs. JSP
Date Fri, 12 Mar 2004 14:41:59 GMT

	Thank you very much for your answers, but I am still a bit confused. The
reason why I asked you it is because I am thinking of integrating Cocoon
with a content manager like OpenCMS. I thought it would be useful for
someone to generate a web page in a simple way, using OpenCMS, and then to
easyly let him customize some parameters of the web page generated, like
backgrounds, languages,etc, and that then he can convert it easyly to

	Do you think Cocoon can help me on this better than JSP?


-----Mensaje original-----
De: Marc Portier []
Enviado el: viernes, 12 de marzo de 2004 15:12
Asunto: Re: Coccon vs. JSP wrote:

> For one thing, JSP (with Struts) is limited in scope to devices that
> support JSP pages (ie browsers).  While JSP is slowly moving to other
> technologies/devices, Cocoon has already been structured to support
> virtually any type of device. That's what the XML buys you...create your
> view once in XML and send it to any type of device for interpretation
> by/for that device.


Mind also that you shouldn't compare JSP with XSLT in that respect.

JSP is mainly a templating language (meaning you shouldn't use the
scripting logic features in there to conduct business logic processing)
While XSLT is an XML transformation language. (For that job it is
designed and well equiped)

Inside Cocoon are a number of template languages that more nicely blend
with the XML thinking (JXTemplate or the older XSP technology come to
mind) and which should be the counterparts of your comparisson to JSP.

However, in Cocoon the 'view-template' is just one part of the equation,
there is also often the multi-channel publishing issue. As Robert says,
sometimes you want to yield from one template a multitude of different
output formats (possibly for multiple devices) and maybe even want those
aggregated/included in different ways.

If you know the Martin Fowler Enterprise Architecture patterns [1], I'ld
say the Cocoon pipelines offer a very flexibile way to nicely mixing all
allowing you to use, combine and maximize all of their benefits for your

And last but not least, stepping away of only the 'view' issue: for more
complex interaction sites you can benefit from the Cocoon Forms
(comparable to JSP) and Cocoon FlowScript (quite unique IMHO).

Concluing: There is no simple unique one-size-fits-all Truth, but rather
some negotiation towards the framework that best fits your needs.

 From your message I get that JSP is enough for your current needs, so
why bother?  The good news is that Cocoon will not turn it's back on
you.  If your needs grow over time and the Cocoon feature mix starts
showing its benefits, then we provide enough JSP minded components to
ease the transition...


> Bob
> -----Original Message-----
> From: []
> Sent: Friday, March 12, 2004 8:34 AM
> To:
> Subject: Coccon vs. JSP
> Hello!!
> 	I am learning a lot about Cocoon, but I can't see yet the
> advantages of
> Cocoon versus technologies like JSP. I think that working with XSL is
> much
> more difficult than working with JSP, as XSL is limited in
> variables,etc.
> What are the benefits of using Cocoon?	(No doubt that you will
> change my
> mind ;).
> Alejandro
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Marc Portier                  
Outerthought - Open Source, Java & XML Competence Support Center
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