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From "Derek Hohls" <>
Subject RE: Coccon vs. JSP
Date Fri, 12 Mar 2004 14:52:02 GMT

You could always try a CMS such as Lenya,
which is already integrated with Cocoon - 
but if OpenCMS can already store its data in XML,
then you can always write an interface in Cocoon
to run on top of it, allowing for a user to select his 
parameters, and using the Cocoon backbone to
do the hard work of the text,PDF etc generation.
If OpenCMS uses some other format, you can then
write a generator that reads in the source file
and spits it out as XML...



So - all this is possible in Cocoon - but if you have got
very small needs that you know will not chnage, then
go on the way you already know [ie. there are other 
contraints like time and money, not just "best technical
choice", that we must all consider...].  But if you do
pursue the Cocoon route, you are bound to pick up some
interest from folks, if you helping to link to another OS 


>>> 2004/03/12 04:41:59 PM >>>

	Thank you very much for your answers, but I am still a bit
confused. The
reason why I asked you it is because I am thinking of integrating
with a content manager like OpenCMS. I thought it would be useful for
someone to generate a web page in a simple way, using OpenCMS, and then
easyly let him customize some parameters of the web page generated,
backgrounds, languages,etc, and that then he can convert it easyly to

	Do you think Cocoon can help me on this better than JSP?


-----Mensaje original-----
De: Marc Portier [] 
Enviado el: viernes, 12 de marzo de 2004 15:12
Asunto: Re: Coccon vs. JSP wrote:

> For one thing, JSP (with Struts) is limited in scope to devices that
> support JSP pages (ie browsers).  While JSP is slowly moving to
> technologies/devices, Cocoon has already been structured to support
> virtually any type of device. That's what the XML buys you...create
> view once in XML and send it to any type of device for
> by/for that device.


Mind also that you shouldn't compare JSP with XSLT in that respect.

JSP is mainly a templating language (meaning you shouldn't use the
scripting logic features in there to conduct business logic
While XSLT is an XML transformation language. (For that job it is
designed and well equiped)

Inside Cocoon are a number of template languages that more nicely
with the XML thinking (JXTemplate or the older XSP technology come to
mind) and which should be the counterparts of your comparisson to JSP.

However, in Cocoon the 'view-template' is just one part of the
there is also often the multi-channel publishing issue. As Robert
sometimes you want to yield from one template a multitude of different
output formats (possibly for multiple devices) and maybe even want
aggregated/included in different ways.

If you know the Martin Fowler Enterprise Architecture patterns [1],
say the Cocoon pipelines offer a very flexibile way to nicely mixing
allowing you to use, combine and maximize all of their benefits for

And last but not least, stepping away of only the 'view' issue: for
complex interaction sites you can benefit from the Cocoon Forms
(comparable to JSP) and Cocoon FlowScript (quite unique IMHO).

Concluing: There is no simple unique one-size-fits-all Truth, but
some negotiation towards the framework that best fits your needs.

 From your message I get that JSP is enough for your current needs, so
why bother?  The good news is that Cocoon will not turn it's back on
you.  If your needs grow over time and the Cocoon feature mix starts
showing its benefits, then we provide enough JSP minded components to
ease the transition...


> Bob
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [] 
> Sent: Friday, March 12, 2004 8:34 AM
> To: 
> Subject: Coccon vs. JSP
> Hello!!
> 	I am learning a lot about Cocoon, but I can't see yet the
> advantages of
> Cocoon versus technologies like JSP. I think that working with XSL
> much
> more difficult than working with JSP, as XSL is limited in
> variables,etc.
> What are the benefits of using Cocoon?	(No doubt that you will
> change my
> mind ;).
> Alejandro
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: 
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Marc Portier                   
Outerthought - Open Source, Java & XML Competence Support Center
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