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From Joerg Heinicke <>
Subject Re: CRM or Sales Force Automation using Cocoon?
Date Wed, 14 Apr 2004 01:23:56 GMT
On 14.04.2004 00:44, Chris Chesney wrote:

> Thomas,
> Sorry for the delay -- I've been out of pocket for a couple days.  First
> off, I should give you a better picture of how we've been using OFBiz.

Maybe you can complete 
with your knowledge about OFBiz?

> We're a consulting company that typically provides custom web
> applications with a focus on Open Source.  One of our projects required
> workflow and at the same time, I was working on putting together a list
> of open source components for enterprise class applications.  Our search
> for workflow turned up the OFBiz project as they had implemented an XPDL
> compliant workflow engine.  A closer look at the overall architecture
> turned out to provide most of what I was looking for in terms of
> components and design (Service Oriented Architecture, Separation of
> Concerns, Security, Persistence, Reporting, etc.).
> We have not really utilized any of the vertical applications.  However,
> the underlying data model is quite extensive and we've utilized it along
> with some of the components a few times.  From a data model perspective,
> it would be plenty flexible to handle a CRM application probably out of
> the box.  There is a party manager that is fairly mature and I know you
> can do mailings, but beyond that I don't know what other CRM features
> have been implemented.  If you're interested, I can certainly look into
> it further -- it would probably be good for me to know.
> On the cocoon side, I've always been interested in the project, but have
> only played with it on occasion.  Based on your email, I can't really
> see a benefit to using both cocoon and OFBiz.  My lack of experience
> with cocoon prevents me from giving you a good comparison, so I will
> tell you the benefits I see in using OFBiz.  You can decide whether they
> are actually beneficial in your situation.

But might the missing benefit of using both OFBiz and Cocoon not result 
from poor Separation of Concerns, what you mentioned above? Why can't I 
use *only* the Workflow Engine? I had a look today on different Workflow 
Frameworks (OFBiz, OpenSymphony OSWorkflow, and Lenya's workflow stuff). 
The second one was just confusing in naming, the first one was to 
complex IMO (and access to CVS possible only after registration), only 
Lenya seemed to have clear SoC, but this might result from the fact that 
it only consists of 10 interfaces and 10 classes and is not that complex 


> 1.  Standard Integrated Data Model
> 2.  Service Oriented Architecture
> 3.  Workflow Engine
> 4.  Security Integrated with Users in Data Model
> 5.  Existing Vertical Applications
> There is definitely value in keeping it simple.  OFBiz is an enterprise
> platform and as such has the inherent complexity.  If you're looking to
> meet your requirements in short order, OFBiz will not work.  If you're
> looking to provide integrated functionality beyond CRM in the future and
> your timeframes permit, it might be a good option.
> Good luck,
> Chris

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