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From "DAVIGNON Andre - CETE NP/DIODé/PANDOC" <Andre.Davig...@developpement-durable.gouv.fr>
Subject Re: Getting started with C2.2 -- where's the exception information?
Date Fri, 30 Jan 2009 15:41:02 GMT
Hi all,

I sometimes feel there is unfortunately no constructive debate about 
this topic (2.1 vs 2.2). And as you say, Bart, blaming people who remain 
unsatisfied with 2.2 seems to be the answer though it's a bit easy.

For example, I have a lot of Cocoon apps with many XSP and Cocoon 2.2 
does not support XSP. I don't know what to do with this apps in the 
future when 2.1 is no longer supported.

Here 
(http://www.nabble.com/How-can-i-activate-XSP-in-cocoon-2.2---to19452293.html#a19457928) 
was an answer : "Yes... XSP is evil" and "Yes, flowscript + template 
block". Constructive debate. What about performance (javascript 
interpreter written in java vs XSP compilation) ?

If I have to work with a new environment for what reasons would I choose 
Cocoon 2.2 as there are now many developping frameworks when I no longer 
find in Cocoon the reasons that made me work with it ?

Regards,

André





Le 30/01/2009 16:18, > Bart Remmerie (par Internet, dépôt 
users-return-97136-andre.davignon=developpement-durable.gouv.fr@cocoon.apache.org) 
a écrit  :
> It's not only about taking the road less traveled ... certainly not if 
> you get the impression that it seems to be going the wrong way.
> I am convinced that a lot of cocoon users were convinced that cocoon was 
> powerful & useful ... until 2.2
> We all know Cocoon has a rather steep learning curve, but the move to 
> 2.2 just made it even more difficult.
> Maybe acceptance is not an issue, but when cocoon loses it user base, 
> cocoon also loses the rich potential of talented developers to improve it.
> 
> Just to get things clear (and to find out if I should stick with 
> cocoon): who / what is cocoon made for (basically, who is the client) & 
> what is this "client" expecting / hoping for ?
> 
> What I've seen in the recent past is that this discussion comes up every 
> now and then, meaning that users remain unsatisfied.  I feel that it 
> would be to easy to blame them (although this is convenient, since you'd 
> never have to question anything).
> 
> All I can hope is to get some constructive debate out of this.
> 
> What I expect as a cocoon user when new releases occur:
> new features, easier to use, better documentation ( and examples), 
> stronger foundations, ...
> I can accept that it takes some effort, extra learning and code 
> conversion ... (but I hope to get some of the above in return)
> 
> I would like to invite other users to express what they expect from new 
> versions, unless the end users are not the target audience for cocoon, 
> and in this case ... should all move to mainstream php/ruby ?
> 
> Regards,
> Bart
> 
> 
> 
> 2009/1/30 Derek Hohls <DHohls@csir.co.za <mailto:DHohls@csir.co.za>>
> 
>     You may be correct; but I have never felt that Cocoon was
>     "striving" for acceptance.  It simply is what it is; and you either
>     find it incredibly powerful and useful ... or become a mainstream
>     php/ruby developer.  If you are here, its because you have taken
>     the road (development route?!) less traveled!
> 
>      >>> On 2009/01/30 at 08:24, in message
>     <21742093.post@talk.nabble.com <mailto:21742093.post@talk.nabble.com>>,
>     Klortho <Voldrani@gmail.com <mailto:Voldrani@gmail.com>> wrote:
> 
>     dhohls wrote:
>      >
>      > That's a little harsh - although my impression is that C2.2 is
>      > perhaps a step sideways in terms of how many things are
>      > done... but that's just an impression from reading all the
>      > mailing list Q&A.  So far, I have not needed to take the plunge.
>      >
>     Yes, you're right ... too harsh.
>     I'm really just a newbie, but speaking as one, I think that 2.1 was
>     a much
>     nicer experience out of the gate, which is pretty damn important for an
>     application to gain wider acceptance.
> 
> 
> 
> 
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> 
> 
> -- 
> Bart Remmerie

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