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From Robby Pelssers <>
Subject RE: Forms and maps
Date Wed, 18 Apr 2012 08:26:19 GMT
Just my 2 cents on this topic...

Cocoon forms was at the time in my eyes a pretty awesome solution to build highly dynamic
forms with support for continuations. But as we all know this puts considerable strain on
the server side.  Gradually we started seeing a tendency towards AJAX (XmlHttpRequests) which
is a fancy word for:
- no complete page refresh
- partial re-rendering of page
- only fetching the minimal amount of data 
- let the browser do the heavy lifting

This trend is evolving even further now with Websockets.

One could easily say that the same discussions hold for database related technologies. Hibernate
was the big revelation, a super abstraction over RDBMS dialects.  It greatly reduces portability
but it just doesn't always do the right thing (e.g. performance wise) so some people reverted
back to plain jdbc wrappers.

XSP was very convenient but it allows developers to mix controller / view which is now seen
as a bad habit.

Avalon was the way forward to configure your components at the time and next dependency injection
became the most hyped buzzword.  Spring framework and google juice came into play.

I guess it's a matter of taste and the willingness to move forward.  All (web)frameworks and
technologies move forward (willingly or not):
- new JDK
- newer versions of dependencies
- Ant --> maven
- ...

Recently there were some rants against XSLT (
).  Just try transforming XML from your most favorite programming language and you might be
in for a surprise.  Surely XSLT takes a lot of typing but also XSLT is evolving just as XQuery

I can only advise to take a good look around and find the best match for your requirements.
 If that is all about building dynamic forms wicket might be a good fit.  Cocoon still is
and certainly will be for the near future the best choice for transforming XML.



-----Original Message-----
From: [] 
Sent: Wednesday, April 18, 2012 7:58 AM
Subject: Re: Forms and maps

 Ciao Alberto,
 you'll probably right.

 What comes to Cocoon lifecycle, I don't get it. Has C3 anything in 
 common with C2 except the concept of pipelines? Can you do the same 
 things with it?
 When C2.2 was published, I fell off the wagon because of techical 
 differences. C3 knocked me out for good. If you think of the user coming 
 from C2.1 environment who has get used to utilize flowscript, templates, 
 cforms, xsp etc and think of him/her trying to get accustomed in C3, I 
 think the least one can say is that he/she will be totally in a faint.

 I don't either get the eagerness for dumbing all the "good old" 
 techiques and frameworks. Of course the general abandonment will halt 
 the development but if you think something like C2.1 and C2.2, I guess 
 they will be useful for years to go, if you are willing and capable of 
 updating some parts by your own.

 - mika -

 P.S. There are still several actors using C2.0..

 On Tue, 17 Apr 2012 22:49:37 +0200, Alberto <> 
> On 04/13/2012 07:18 PM, Mika M Lehtonen wrote:
>> Interesting,
>> I am also integrating maps into sites produced with Cocoon 2.1x. I
>> have no answer to you but maybe we could collaborate on this issue?
>> OpenLayers widget would be something!
> Just some considerations.
> I like very much cocoon, its philosophy, and the way to produce
> application with it and especially with forms. But we must remain
> realistic: in the last years the pace of the develop of cocoon is 
> slow
> and the next release will be something different. For example, the
> integration with Wicket seems to be the sign that forms will not be 
> more
> developed.
> Due to the fact that I don't know how to develop a new widget for
> cocoon, I was waiting for some clue or suggest to evaluate the effort
> needed.
> Unfortunately I have not received any answer so I'm considering to
> invest my time in another framework (Wicket) that can solve this kind
> problem and has a future more outlined.
> Ciao
> Alberto
>> cheers,
>> mika
>> 13.4.2012 20:03, Alberto kirjoitti:
>>> Hi,
>>> I'm using cocoon 2.1.12-dev and I'm facing how to include a map in
>>> cocoon forms.
>>> I have to do simple things from flowscript: load a kml url and 
>>> receive
>>> the coordinates of an area selection.
>>> I'm considering to use OpenLayers or Google Maps. Looking sources I
>>> found already existing widget classes for GoogleMaps
>>> (org.apache.cocoon.forms.formmodel.GoogleMap) but it is 
>>> undocumented and
>>> using it I have the following error: "Non-existing component for 
>>> this
>>> hint (Key='googlemap')". Moreover it seems it lacks methods to load 
>>> a
>>> kml file.
>>> So, which is the best way to do it? The googlemap widget is 
>>> working?
>>> I have to write a new widget following the document
>>> Any suggest is welcome
>>> Best regards
>>> Alberto
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