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From Danny Angus <>
Subject Re: [plea] get back to work -- was Re: [codec] [proposal] Moving To Apache Commons
Date Tue, 23 Dec 2003 10:59:02 GMT

> I know exactly how you feel. The basic problem is that Jakarta, and
> Jakarta-Commons, are now incapable of taking any decisions on contentious
> issues. They are too large - too large for the discussion, too many
> too many personalities and and inability to hold a vote.

I think that is a bit harsh, it would be easy to take decisions with a
VOTE, I don't know where you get "inability" from, it's getting broad based
concensus that is harder, but also more desirable.

> IMHO, the only hope is for individual products to choose to move to TLP
> (lucene, slide and struts I'm hoping for). In effect, I'm hoping
> that other products will then see the light and want to escape.

I also think this is unfair, there is no question of any sub-project having
to escape from anything.
Jakarta has, and still does, and will continue to, provide a supportive
environment for the development of Open Source Java server software.

Individual communities within Jakarta may decide to apply for promotion, or
not, to serve their own best interests.
Whatever their choice, and even if they want simply to continue without
making a decision, they will be fully supported in that action by the
Jakarta PMC.

> And then I suspect the final battle will commence - J-C vs Tomcat for the
> Jakarta name.

Thats a lot of melodramatic nonsense, why on earth would there be a battle
about it?
You seem to think that the sub projects should behave like spoilt children
competing for their parents attention.
I think we are all mature enough to realise that there are many degrees of
compromise between one extreme and the other.

> During this time, there will be little coding, much fustration
> and community damage.

Why would people not code?
Nothing will occur to affect the infrastructure and day-to-day decision
making of any sub-project or commons component, promotion to tlp, movement
to the incubator, or movement to apache commons is not Excommunication the
project infrastructure is not destroyed and left for the commiters to
re-assemble. The PMC's, the infrastructure folks, members and the board are
all there to support transition and engourage success in each and every
project of Apache, large or small. From "We consider
ourselves not simply a group of projects sharing a server, but rather a
community of developers and users"

> I'll say again - the Board could avoid this damage by
> choosing to ACT rather than REACT.

It is extremely unlikely that the board will become involved in this unless
either the PMC request it or it directly affects the board's business. The
right people to decide the future of Jakarta commons are the Jakarta
commons commiters.


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