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From Richard Sitze <>
Subject Re: [logging] Enterprise Common Logging... dare we say 2.0?
Date Wed, 15 Dec 2004 20:22:19 GMT
robert burrell donkin <> wrote on 
12/15/2004 01:44:47 PM:

> On 11 Dec 2004, at 02:24, Noel J. Bergman wrote:
> > It disturbs me that what seems to me to be a reasonable and small set 
> > of
> > requirements --- along with what appears to have been considerable
> > forethought based upon real world issues, and experiences supporting 
> > many
> > developers --- appears to be discounted a bit too out of hand.  I hope 

> > my
> > perception is wrong.
> >
> > Does anyone really dispute the requirement to support localization for 

> > log
> > messages or the additional JSR-mandated logging requirements?  If not, 

> > then
> > let's work constructively towards satisfying the requirements.  And 
> > not by
> > relying upon some IDE's tooling.
> IMHO given the amount of grief that the commons-logging team (richard 
> included) has suffered over the years, i'm glad that we're actually 
> discussing the issues before launching code on unsuspecting millions. 
> i'd much rather that people speak up and voice their concerns now when 
> we can actually acknowledge them and (at the very least) document 
> reasons for rejecting.
> we've been stuck for a number of years with a flawed API. with more 
> discussion, it might have been possible to fix them at the start. i'd 
> hope that we (as a community) have learnt from that (bitter) experience 
> and would be a little more willing to encourage a full and frank 
> discussion.

Absolutely.  This is exactly my intent, for those who raised 
concerns/issue with the dropping of a proposal "prior to opening 
discussions with the JCL community".  Yes, we did put a lot of thought 
into it.  Yes, I expected and desire a lot of discussion, and debate, with 
the JCL community.  Yes, I expect that there will be changes before we 
settle on the right direction for the next step.  And I wouldn't have it 
any other way: I want the community buy in before we move forward... but I 
also want this to move forward.

> - robert
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Richard A. Sitze
IBM WebSphere WebServices Development

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