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From Dennis Lundberg <>
Subject Re: [all] Splitting the mailing list
Date Sat, 22 Jul 2006 22:23:13 GMT
Stephen Colebourne wrote:
> This proposal has merit, in that it allows the main dev list room to 
> breathe for discussion, which should be its primary purpose. It also has 
> a very clear benefit in mail archive - in fact its really pretty 
> essential for that.
> Some of the negative respones have focussed around what the needs of 
> committers are, but I'd argue that we should be focussing on the needs 
> of the 'users' - ie those who want to follow commons discussions, maybe 
> chip in occasionaly, but are not interested in contributing/commiting. 
> An excess of what can feel like spam will put some of these people off.

Good point! We are not doing this to please the committers, but trying 
to breathe new life into the community.

> The proposal suggests two new lists, but I'd argue thats unecessary. One 
> for svn, jira, wiki and gump is all thats needed. Basically everythng 
> that is non-discussion and *might* be regarded as 'spam'.

Being a fairly new committer here, let me describe how my progress from 
casual reader of the user list to committer has been:

1. Start using commons components

2. Ask questions on usage and help others where possible
= subscribe to users@

3. Listen in on discussions regarding the general progress and direction 
of interesting components
= subscribe to dev@

4. Start reporting bugs and follow what new functionality will come in 
the components that interest me
= subscribe to issues@

5. Look at the actual code changes made to the interesting components, 
and start to submit code myself
= subscribe to commits@

My standpoint is that it will have a positive effect on non-committers 
if we split the lists. I also think two new lists is a minimum. I would 
consider adding notifications for gump or other CI systems, see this as 
an example

> So, +1 to one new list, commons-auto? commons-build?, commons-gen?
> Or perhaps this should be a jakarta-wide list if we are one-jakarta ;-)
> Stephen
> Henri Yandell wrote:
>> A while back Maven moved to having the commits and issues on different
>> mailing lists and it seems to be going well.
>> So I'd like to suggest:
>>  - reply-to to commons-dev
>>     - reply-to to commons-dev
>> I think the wiki notifications should stay on the dev list as they're
>> relatively low in number and they don't require any kind of restricted
>> authentication to get involved with. Any contributor can hop in and
>> fix a spelling mistake.
>> The obvious worry is over new committers not subscribing to those
>> lists. Firstly we can obviously make a point of mentioning that to new
>> committers - but mostly I think the number of Re: svn commit and Re:
>> [JIRA] emails that will appear will make them wonder what they're
>> missing.
>> Another advantage of the above just happened on the Tomcat list. A
>> mistake by a committer caused 2700 svn commits to be sent out (to
>> nearly 1000 subscribers). The ASF mail server took a good many hours
>> to recover - most of the day I think. So both those kind of errors,
>> and the large JIRA reorgs we've been doing would be hitting less
>> people.
>> One question:
>> Do we automatically subscribe everyone on dev@ and let them
>> unsubscribe. Or start the lists empty.
>> Hen
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Dennis Lundberg

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