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From Gilles <>
Subject Re: [RESULT] [math] Name of the new TLP
Date Tue, 02 Feb 2016 12:27:36 GMT
On Tue, 2 Feb 2016 11:33:38 +0000, Mark Thomas wrote:
> On 02/02/2016 11:19, Gilles wrote:
>> On Tue, 2 Feb 2016 01:49:21 -0500, Christopher wrote:
>>> On Mon, Feb 1, 2016 at 8:24 AM, Gilles 
>>> <>
>>> wrote:
>>>> On Mon, 1 Feb 2016 06:20:14 -0700, Phil Steitz wrote:
>>>>> Unscientifically, but in the interest of keeping things moving, 
>>>>> it
>>>>> looks to me like just plain "math" is the winner.  Any objections 
>>>>> to
>>>>> moving forward with this name?
>>>>> Phil
>>>> Proposals were not all presented when people gave opinions.
>>>> A [VOTE] perhaps?
>>>> Actually: Who should vote, or not?
>>>> [Logic would have it that people they do not intend to join
>>>> development of the new project should not...]
>>> Users have a huge stake in the name. They will be the ones trying 
>>> to
>>> remember the project name when adding it as a dependency, after 
>>> all.
>> Hmm, do you have many examples of a project that was not named by 
>> its
>> inceptors?
>> Remember?  Remember what?
>> Users would just have to find the project once in its lifetime, and
>> copy that into their dependency file.
>> From a user's perspective, just "Math" is the worst possible choice: 
>> if
>> you use a search engine to get to one of the project's pages, you'll 
>> get
>> many more hits related to "math" in general than to the Java project 
>> of
>> that name.
> Many Apache projects won't appear near the top of search results 
> unless
> preceded by Apache. Searching for "Apache Math" should get a user to
> exactly where they want to be.

Yes, of course.
Then type "Openoffice", without "Apache", (since that is the example 
you use below) and see what you get.

Not so with just "Math".
Commons Math appears at the bottom of the third page.
That was my point, no more no less.
[With "java math", Commons Math appears at the bottom of the first 

>> Moreover, from the majority of Apache projects' names, it is 
>> impossible
>> to tell what what they are about.
>> Which is right (most of the time) since the name is usually some 
>> sort
>> of acronym.
> That is simply a choice of name style.
>> Even when the emblematic web server needed a name, they did not end 
>> up
>> with "WebServer"!
> No, they went with "HTTP Server" or, to use the full name, "Apache 
> Server".

IIUC the story told here:
the name was chosen as "Apache".
Before the naming became an issue fro the developers, it didn't have
name per se in the sense which we intend in this discussion.

Then, with the Foundation named after its core product name, it was
perhaps sensible to return to the simple "HTTP server".
[This was a bad example in the sense that "HTTP server" is one of a 
(in the historic perspective).]

> SpamAssassin and OpenOffice are two other significant projects
> where the project name relates directly to what they are used for.
> And those three projects are some of the biggest, if not the three
> biggest, in terms of user base across the ASF.

Those are fine as names IMO (i.e. I guess that no other project
would claim ownership of those names).
Not so with "Math".


> Of all the suggestions "Apache Math" makes the most sense to me.
> Mark

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