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From Rob Tompkins <chtom...@gmail.com>
Subject Re: Advice on project logo
Date Mon, 09 Sep 2019 19:08:05 GMT


> On Sep 9, 2019, at 11:31 AM, Gilles Sadowski <gilleseran@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> Hi.
> 
> Le lun. 9 sept. 2019 à 12:35, Sally Khudairi <sk@apache.org> a écrit :
>> 
>> Thank you, Gilles.
>> 
>> I'm copying Kenneth Paskett, creative lead from Central Services. I was talking to
him about this opportunity yesterday: we will be happy to explore options for a future design.

Just curious, who on this transmission is at ApacheCon this week. Having worked with Sally
in the past on an ad-hoc logo for the DC road show earlier this year, I could sit down with
her and see if we can get something analogous to what we have in place currently that satisfies
everyone (granted my designs tend to be minimalist in nature).

Thoughts?

-Rob

>> 
>> I'm not saying "don't use anything that remotely looks like the feather". It's important
that if we choose to use an ASF-feather-inspired motif that it doesn't look like it's a "broken"
version of the original.
> 
> It was certainly not the intention.
> It is difficult/impossible to argue on things that boil down
> to a matter of taste or arbitrary policy (like the kinds of
> reuse that are allowed and not by the rights owner).
> 
>> Ways around that issue could involve the shape or color of the feather, among other
adjustments.
> 
> Exactly what I meant: IMHO those changes are more "broken"
> than a rotation. ;-)
> [But if they are allowed, then fine.]
> 
>> Thank you and the community for your trust. We look forward to working with you.
> 
> Hopefully, preferences will be collected in the thread which I
> mentioned in the previous message, and the community can
> converge on a few ideas to help with the design.
> 
> Best regards,
> Gilles
> 
>> 
>> Best,
>> Sally
>> 
>> - - -
>> Vice President Marketing & Publicity
>> Vice President Sponsor Relations
>> The Apache Software Foundation
>> 
>> Tel +1 617 921 8656 | sk@apache.org
>> 
>> On Mon, Sep 9, 2019, at 03:22, Gilles Sadowski wrote:
>>> Hello.
>>> 
>>> Le sam. 7 sept. 2019 à 13:29, Sally Khudairi <sk@apache.org> a écrit
:
>>>> 
>>>> Thank you, Gilles. I appreciate you reaching out.
>>>> 
>>>> Normally I encourage PMCs to not re-orient or "spindle" the feather where
possible, but I understand that some legacy logos have a bit of a problem with positioning.
For example, the Apache HTTP Server logo:
>>>> 
>>>> - original logo https://twitter.com/apache_httpd/photo
>>>> - interim logo https://britewire.com/apache-http-server/
>>>> - new logo https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/comdev/project-logos/originals/httpd.svg
>>> 
>>> So is the choice between
>>> * use the exact same feather as the foundation's
>>> * not use anything that even remotely looks like feather
>>> ?
>>> 
>>>> Whilst I understand the proposed design, I'm not *loving* the look of the
logo, particularly as Apache Commons has such a massive footprint across so many projects.
>>>> 
>>>> To that end, may I ask a favor?
>>>> 
>>>> Would you and the Apache Commons PMC be amenable to considering having Central
Services --a somewhat new sub-group of ASF Marketing & Publicity-- help you with creating
a new logo?
>>> 
>>> Help from experts is welcome.
>>> 
>>>> If you are not in a rush, we can see how we can help you.
>>> 
>>> I don't think we should be in a rush, as the proposal to change the
>>> projects' logo(s) dates back from 3 years ago.[1]
>>> 
>>>> ApacheCon North America starts on Monday, and we can start the discussions
on what your requirements are and the best way to meet your needs.
>>> 
>>> I can only speak about of my preferences:[2]
>>> * At most 2 or 3 graphical elements reminiscent of the project
>>> (feather included, if applicable)
>>> * No URL
>>> * Clearly visible at all (reasonable) resolutions [3]
>>> * Combinable with 1 additional grahical element (so that we can
>>> easily create one logo for each of the many components hosted
>>> in "Commons" [4]
>>> 
>>>> ApacheCon Europe is taking place in October: I was thinking the timeframe
between the two events (~6 weeks) would be sufficient for us to have a few proposals developed.
>>> 
>>> Great.
>>> 
>>>> If this works for you, we can get started this week.
>>> 
>>> Fine with me.
>>> 
>>>> If not, I understand. You may proceed with the proposed logo with the intention
of revisiting and updating in future.
>>> 
>>> Now is a good time.
>>> Indeed, that logo is not favoured by the community (at least the few
>>> who voiced their opinion).[5]  And, IMHO, the alternatives are failing
>>> what I consider basic requirements (cf. above).[6]
>>> 
>>>> Many kind thanks again for your attention and consideration.
>>>> 
>>>> Warm regards,
>>>> Sally
>>> 
>>> Thank you very much for the offer,
>>> Gilles
>>> 
>>> [1] https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/COMMONSSITE-86
>>> [2] Discussion thread:
>>>    https://markmail.org/message/twsre7wl6jmue6mp
>>> [3] For example, when I look at the top left of the Apache's JIRA pages:
>>>    https://issues.apache.org/jira/secure/Dashboard.jspa
>>> I see either a bad logo, or an inadequate use of it.
>>> [4] See e.g. http://commons.apache.org/proper/commons-rng/
>>> [5] Lacking feedback, I opted for an upgrade of the feather using
>>> the foundation's new graphics keeping the old (and supposedly
>>> consensual) idea for the feather orientation.
>>> [6] Even though it's great that Loic Guibert was willing to provide
>>> idea and a few examples.
>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> Tel +1 617 921 8656 | sk@apache.org
>>>> 
>>>> On Fri, Sep 6, 2019, at 17:18, Gilles Sadowski wrote:
>>>>> Hello.
>>>>> 
>>>>> We, at Apache Commons, would like to know whether an Apache
>>>>> project  is authorized to extract graphical elements from the
>>>>> foundation's logo, apply some transformation to them, and use
>>>>> the result in order to compose its own logo.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Case in point is here:
>>>>>    https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/comdev/project-logos/originals/commons.svg
>>>>> (where the feather has been rotated).
>>>>> 
>>>>> Does it constitute a breach of the recommendations published in
>>>>> the "Identity Style Guide"?[1]
>>>>> 
>>>>> Thank you,
>>>>> Gilles Sadowski
>>>>> 
>>>>> [1] https://apache.org/foundation/press/kit/ApacheFoundation_StyleGuide.pdf
>>>>> 
> 
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