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From Rob Tompkins <chtom...@gmail.com>
Subject Re: Advice on project logo
Date Sun, 15 Sep 2019 17:47:43 GMT


> On Sep 15, 2019, at 8:10 AM, Gary Gregory <garydgregory@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> I do not think we need "Project", we're not a 70s progrock band ;-)

I like the Alan Parsons Project, a little :-P
> 
>> On Sun, Sep 15, 2019, 07:45 Rob Tompkins <chtompki@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Here’s a potential logo that I mocked up and sent to Kenneth. Does anyone have
any opinions on this? I felt like something similar to the one that Sally sent across for
the HTTP project seemed reasonable. 
>> 
>> Also, I think that it’s not exactly adherent to the style guide and that Kenneth
plans on putting something together that’s analogous and adhere’s to the style guide.
 
>> 
>> Thoughts? -Rob
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> On Sep 9, 2019, at 3:17 PM, Gary Gregory <garydgregory@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> The KISS solution would be to get "Central" to produce not just the Commons
>>> logo but one for each component and be done. The even simpler path is to
>>> forgo component specific logos, especially since Commons is just one Apache
>>> project. I like simpler...
>>> 
>>> Gary
>>> 
>>>> On Mon, Sep 9, 2019, 15:08 Rob Tompkins <chtompki@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>> On Sep 9, 2019, at 11:31 AM, Gilles Sadowski <gilleseran@gmail.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> Hi.
>>>>> 
>>>>>> Le lun. 9 sept. 2019 à 12:35, Sally Khudairi <sk@apache.org>
a écrit :
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Thank you, Gilles.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> I'm copying Kenneth Paskett, creative lead from Central Services.
I was
>>>> talking to him about this opportunity yesterday: we will be happy to
>>>> explore options for a future design.
>>>> 
>>>> Just curious, who on this transmission is at ApacheCon this week. Having
>>>> worked with Sally in the past on an ad-hoc logo for the DC road show
>>>> earlier this year, I could sit down with her and see if we can get
>>>> something analogous to what we have in place currently that satisfies
>>>> everyone (granted my designs tend to be minimalist in nature).
>>>> 
>>>> Thoughts?
>>>> 
>>>> -Rob
>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> I'm not saying "don't use anything that remotely looks like the
>>>> feather". It's important that if we choose to use an ASF-feather-inspired
>>>> motif that it doesn't look like it's a "broken" version of the original.
>>>>> 
>>>>> It was certainly not the intention.
>>>>> It is difficult/impossible to argue on things that boil down
>>>>> to a matter of taste or arbitrary policy (like the kinds of
>>>>> reuse that are allowed and not by the rights owner).
>>>>> 
>>>>>> Ways around that issue could involve the shape or color of the feather,
>>>> among other adjustments.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Exactly what I meant: IMHO those changes are more "broken"
>>>>> than a rotation. ;-)
>>>>> [But if they are allowed, then fine.]
>>>>> 
>>>>>> Thank you and the community for your trust. We look forward to working
>>>> with you.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Hopefully, preferences will be collected in the thread which I
>>>>> mentioned in the previous message, and the community can
>>>>> converge on a few ideas to help with the design.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Best regards,
>>>>> Gilles
>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Best,
>>>>>> Sally
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> - - -
>>>>>> Vice President Marketing & Publicity
>>>>>> Vice President Sponsor Relations
>>>>>> The Apache Software Foundation
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Tel +1 617 921 8656 | sk@apache.org
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> On Mon, Sep 9, 2019, at 03:22, Gilles Sadowski wrote:
>>>>>>> Hello.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Le sam. 7 sept. 2019 à 13:29, Sally Khudairi <sk@apache.org>
a écrit :
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Thank you, Gilles. I appreciate you reaching out.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Normally I encourage PMCs to not re-orient or "spindle" the
feather
>>>> where possible, but I understand that some legacy logos have a bit of a
>>>> problem with positioning. For example, the Apache HTTP Server logo:
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> - original logo https://twitter.com/apache_httpd/photo
>>>>>>>> - interim logo https://britewire.com/apache-http-server/
>>>>>>>> - new logo
>>>> https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/comdev/project-logos/originals/httpd.svg
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> So is the choice between
>>>>>>> * use the exact same feather as the foundation's
>>>>>>> * not use anything that even remotely looks like feather
>>>>>>> ?
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Whilst I understand the proposed design, I'm not *loving*
the look of
>>>> the logo, particularly as Apache Commons has such a massive footprint
>>>> across so many projects.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> To that end, may I ask a favor?
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Would you and the Apache Commons PMC be amenable to considering
>>>> having Central Services --a somewhat new sub-group of ASF Marketing &
>>>> Publicity-- help you with creating a new logo?
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Help from experts is welcome.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> If you are not in a rush, we can see how we can help you.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> I don't think we should be in a rush, as the proposal to change
the
>>>>>>> projects' logo(s) dates back from 3 years ago.[1]
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> ApacheCon North America starts on Monday, and we can start
the
>>>> discussions on what your requirements are and the best way to meet your
>>>> needs.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> I can only speak about of my preferences:[2]
>>>>>>> * At most 2 or 3 graphical elements reminiscent of the project
>>>>>>> (feather included, if applicable)
>>>>>>> * No URL
>>>>>>> * Clearly visible at all (reasonable) resolutions [3]
>>>>>>> * Combinable with 1 additional grahical element (so that we can
>>>>>>> easily create one logo for each of the many components hosted
>>>>>>> in "Commons" [4]
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> ApacheCon Europe is taking place in October: I was thinking
the
>>>> timeframe between the two events (~6 weeks) would be sufficient for us to
>>>> have a few proposals developed.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Great.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> If this works for you, we can get started this week.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Fine with me.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> If not, I understand. You may proceed with the proposed logo
with the
>>>> intention of revisiting and updating in future.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Now is a good time.
>>>>>>> Indeed, that logo is not favoured by the community (at least
the few
>>>>>>> who voiced their opinion).[5]  And, IMHO, the alternatives are
failing
>>>>>>> what I consider basic requirements (cf. above).[6]
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Many kind thanks again for your attention and consideration.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Warm regards,
>>>>>>>> Sally
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Thank you very much for the offer,
>>>>>>> Gilles
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> [1] https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/COMMONSSITE-86
>>>>>>> [2] Discussion thread:
>>>>>>>   https://markmail.org/message/twsre7wl6jmue6mp
>>>>>>> [3] For example, when I look at the top left of the Apache's
JIRA
>>>> pages:
>>>>>>>   https://issues.apache.org/jira/secure/Dashboard.jspa
>>>>>>> I see either a bad logo, or an inadequate use of it.
>>>>>>> [4] See e.g. http://commons.apache.org/proper/commons-rng/
>>>>>>> [5] Lacking feedback, I opted for an upgrade of the feather using
>>>>>>> the foundation's new graphics keeping the old (and supposedly
>>>>>>> consensual) idea for the feather orientation.
>>>>>>> [6] Even though it's great that Loic Guibert was willing to provide
>>>>>>> idea and a few examples.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Tel +1 617 921 8656 | sk@apache.org
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> On Fri, Sep 6, 2019, at 17:18, Gilles Sadowski wrote:
>>>>>>>>> Hello.
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> We, at Apache Commons, would like to know whether an
Apache
>>>>>>>>> project  is authorized to extract graphical elements
from the
>>>>>>>>> foundation's logo, apply some transformation to them,
and use
>>>>>>>>> the result in order to compose its own logo.
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Case in point is here:
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>> https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/comdev/project-logos/originals/commons.svg
>>>>>>>>> (where the feather has been rotated).
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Does it constitute a breach of the recommendations published
in
>>>>>>>>> the "Identity Style Guide"?[1]
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Thank you,
>>>>>>>>> Gilles Sadowski
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> [1]
>>>> https://apache.org/foundation/press/kit/ApacheFoundation_StyleGuide.pdf
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>> 
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>>>> 
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>> 
> 
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