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From Gary Gregory <garydgreg...@gmail.com>
Subject Re: Advice on project logo
Date Mon, 16 Sep 2019 01:02:34 GMT
I for one appreciate Rob's efforts and would also be happy to turn the task
over to Services with our input which IMO is just our project name "Apache
Commons".

Gary

On Sun, Sep 15, 2019 at 8:39 PM Rob Tompkins <chtompki@gmail.com> wrote:

> Pardon to cause a stir here, but that was just a mock-up that I sent to
> “Central Services” as an idea from which to work. I had no intentions of
> suggesting that we vote on it or even use is as I think that there are
> spacing and font issues with it. I thought that my email with the mock-up
> made it clear that it was a rough pass.
>
> -Rob
>
> > On Sep 15, 2019, at 7:25 PM, Gilles Sadowski <gilleseran@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >
> > Le dim. 15 sept. 2019 à 23:40, sebb <sebbaz@gmail.com <mailto:
> sebbaz@gmail.com>> a écrit :
> >>
> >> Surely it would be better to use the JIRA
> >>
> >> https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/COMMONSSITE-86 <
> https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/COMMONSSITE-86>
> >
> > I don't get it: We agreed to let "Central Services" provide the logo
> > and now we are again presenting homegrown ones...
> > Do we really want to "bikeshed" (again) about unfinished and/or
> > unpolished products?
> >
> > The initial/original thread mentioned previously was supposed to
> > be the place were we define requirements/wishes (in words, or
> > ASCII graphics to convey the general idea).
> > I provided suggestions (in that other thread); please comment.
> >
> > Gilles
> >
> >>
> >> On Sun, 15 Sep 2019 at 21:13, Gilles Sadowski <gilleseran@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> Could we please use *one* (and the original) thread to collect ideas?
> >>>
> >>> Gilles
> >>>
> >>> Le dim. 15 sept. 2019 à 19:47, Rob Tompkins <chtompki@gmail.com>
a
> écrit :
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>> On Sep 15, 2019, at 8:10 AM, Gary Gregory <garydgregory@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>> I do not think we need "Project", we're not a 70s progrock band
;-)
> >>>>
> >>>> I like the Alan Parsons Project, a little :-P
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> On Sun, Sep 15, 2019, 07:45 Rob Tompkins <chtompki@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >>>>>> Here’s a potential logo that I mocked up and sent to Kenneth.
Does
> anyone have any opinions on this? I felt like something similar to the one
> that Sally sent across for the HTTP project seemed reasonable.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Also, I think that it’s not exactly adherent to the style
guide and
> that Kenneth plans on putting something together that’s analogous and
> adhere’s to the style guide.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Thoughts? -Rob
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>> On Sep 9, 2019, at 3:17 PM, Gary Gregory <garydgregory@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> The KISS solution would be to get "Central" to produce not
just
> the Commons
> >>>>>>> logo but one for each component and be done. The even simpler
path
> is to
> >>>>>>> forgo component specific logos, especially since Commons
is just
> one Apache
> >>>>>>> project. I like simpler...
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Gary
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> On Mon, Sep 9, 2019, 15:08 Rob Tompkins <chtompki@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> On Sep 9, 2019, at 11:31 AM, Gilles Sadowski <
> gilleseran@gmail.com>
> >>>>>>>> wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> Hi.
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> Le lun. 9 sept. 2019 à 12:35, Sally Khudairi
<sk@apache.org> a
> écrit :
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> Thank you, Gilles.
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> I'm copying Kenneth Paskett, creative lead from
Central
> Services. I was
> >>>>>>>> talking to him about this opportunity yesterday: we
will be happy
> to
> >>>>>>>> explore options for a future design.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Just curious, who on this transmission is at ApacheCon
this week.
> Having
> >>>>>>>> worked with Sally in the past on an ad-hoc logo for
the DC road
> show
> >>>>>>>> earlier this year, I could sit down with her and see
if we can get
> >>>>>>>> something analogous to what we have in place currently
that
> satisfies
> >>>>>>>> everyone (granted my designs tend to be minimalist in
nature).
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Thoughts?
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> -Rob
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> I'm not saying "don't use anything that remotely
looks like the
> >>>>>>>> feather". It's important that if we choose to use an
> ASF-feather-inspired
> >>>>>>>> motif that it doesn't look like it's a "broken" version
of the
> original.
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> It was certainly not the intention.
> >>>>>>>>> It is difficult/impossible to argue on things that
boil down
> >>>>>>>>> to a matter of taste or arbitrary policy (like the
kinds of
> >>>>>>>>> reuse that are allowed and not by the rights owner).
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> Ways around that issue could involve the shape
or color of the
> feather,
> >>>>>>>> among other adjustments.
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> Exactly what I meant: IMHO those changes are more
"broken"
> >>>>>>>>> than a rotation. ;-)
> >>>>>>>>> [But if they are allowed, then fine.]
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> Thank you and the community for your trust.
We look forward to
> working
> >>>>>>>> with you.
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> Hopefully, preferences will be collected in the
thread which I
> >>>>>>>>> mentioned in the previous message, and the community
can
> >>>>>>>>> converge on a few ideas to help with the design.
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> Best regards,
> >>>>>>>>> Gilles
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> Best,
> >>>>>>>>>> Sally
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> - - -
> >>>>>>>>>> Vice President Marketing & Publicity
> >>>>>>>>>> Vice President Sponsor Relations
> >>>>>>>>>> The Apache Software Foundation
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> Tel +1 617 921 8656 | sk@apache.org
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Sep 9, 2019, at 03:22, Gilles Sadowski
wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>> Hello.
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> Le sam. 7 sept. 2019 à 13:29, Sally
Khudairi <sk@apache.org>
> a écrit :
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> Thank you, Gilles. I appreciate you
reaching out.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> Normally I encourage PMCs to not re-orient
or "spindle" the
> feather
> >>>>>>>> where possible, but I understand that some legacy logos
have a
> bit of a
> >>>>>>>> problem with positioning. For example, the Apache HTTP
Server
> logo:
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> - original logo https://twitter.com/apache_httpd/photo
> >>>>>>>>>>>> - interim logo https://britewire.com/apache-http-server/
> >>>>>>>>>>>> - new logo
> >>>>>>>>
> https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/comdev/project-logos/originals/httpd.svg
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> So is the choice between
> >>>>>>>>>>> * use the exact same feather as the foundation's
> >>>>>>>>>>> * not use anything that even remotely looks
like feather
> >>>>>>>>>>> ?
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> Whilst I understand the proposed design,
I'm not *loving* the
> look of
> >>>>>>>> the logo, particularly as Apache Commons has such a
massive
> footprint
> >>>>>>>> across so many projects.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> To that end, may I ask a favor?
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> Would you and the Apache Commons PMC
be amenable to
> considering
> >>>>>>>> having Central Services --a somewhat new sub-group of
ASF
> Marketing &
> >>>>>>>> Publicity-- help you with creating a new logo?
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> Help from experts is welcome.
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> If you are not in a rush, we can see
how we can help you.
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> I don't think we should be in a rush, as
the proposal to
> change the
> >>>>>>>>>>> projects' logo(s) dates back from 3 years
ago.[1]
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> ApacheCon North America starts on Monday,
and we can start the
> >>>>>>>> discussions on what your requirements are and the best
way to
> meet your
> >>>>>>>> needs.
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> I can only speak about of my preferences:[2]
> >>>>>>>>>>> * At most 2 or 3 graphical elements reminiscent
of the project
> >>>>>>>>>>> (feather included, if applicable)
> >>>>>>>>>>> * No URL
> >>>>>>>>>>> * Clearly visible at all (reasonable) resolutions
[3]
> >>>>>>>>>>> * Combinable with 1 additional grahical
element (so that we can
> >>>>>>>>>>> easily create one logo for each of the many
components hosted
> >>>>>>>>>>> in "Commons" [4]
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> ApacheCon Europe is taking place in
October: I was thinking
> the
> >>>>>>>> timeframe between the two events (~6 weeks) would be
sufficient
> for us to
> >>>>>>>> have a few proposals developed.
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> Great.
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> If this works for you, we can get started
this week.
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> Fine with me.
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> If not, I understand. You may proceed
with the proposed logo
> with the
> >>>>>>>> intention of revisiting and updating in future.
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> Now is a good time.
> >>>>>>>>>>> Indeed, that logo is not favoured by the
community (at least
> the few
> >>>>>>>>>>> who voiced their opinion).[5]  And, IMHO,
the alternatives are
> failing
> >>>>>>>>>>> what I consider basic requirements (cf.
above).[6]
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> Many kind thanks again for your attention
and consideration.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> Warm regards,
> >>>>>>>>>>>> Sally
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> Thank you very much for the offer,
> >>>>>>>>>>> Gilles
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> [1] https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/COMMONSSITE-86
> >>>>>>>>>>> [2] Discussion thread:
> >>>>>>>>>>>  https://markmail.org/message/twsre7wl6jmue6mp
> >>>>>>>>>>> [3] For example, when I look at the top
left of the Apache's
> JIRA
> >>>>>>>> pages:
> >>>>>>>>>>>  https://issues.apache.org/jira/secure/Dashboard.jspa
> >>>>>>>>>>> I see either a bad logo, or an inadequate
use of it.
> >>>>>>>>>>> [4] See e.g. http://commons.apache.org/proper/commons-rng/
> >>>>>>>>>>> [5] Lacking feedback, I opted for an upgrade
of the feather
> using
> >>>>>>>>>>> the foundation's new graphics keeping the
old (and supposedly
> >>>>>>>>>>> consensual) idea for the feather orientation.
> >>>>>>>>>>> [6] Even though it's great that Loic Guibert
was willing to
> provide
> >>>>>>>>>>> idea and a few examples.
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> Tel +1 617 921 8656 | sk@apache.org
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> On Fri, Sep 6, 2019, at 17:18, Gilles
Sadowski wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Hello.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> We, at Apache Commons, would like
to know whether an Apache
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> project  is authorized to extract
graphical elements from the
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> foundation's logo, apply some transformation
to them, and use
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> the result in order to compose its
own logo.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Case in point is here:
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/comdev/project-logos/originals/commons.svg
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> (where the feather has been rotated).
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Does it constitute a breach of the
recommendations published
> in
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> the "Identity Style Guide"?[1]
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Thank you,
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Gilles Sadowski
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> [1]
> >>>>>>>>
> https://apache.org/foundation/press/kit/ApacheFoundation_StyleGuide.pdf
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
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> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
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> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>
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