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From Gilles Sadowski <gillese...@gmail.com>
Subject Re: Advice on project logo
Date Mon, 23 Sep 2019 16:44:28 GMT
Le lun. 23 sept. 2019 à 15:31, Rob Tompkins <chtompki@gmail.com> a écrit :
>
> My thunderbird install didn’t properly handle Kenneth and Sally in the CC here. Adding
them so that they can hear the conversation.

What conversation?
Many of the below messages were not sent to this ML.
Where are the proposals?

Gilles

>
> -Rob
>
> > On Sep 23, 2019, at 9:29 AM, Rob Tompkins <chtompki@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > Hey folks,
> >
> >
> >
> > I think that what Kenneth has provided here is worth adding to the Jira....thoughts?
> >
> >
> >
> > Cheers,
> >
> > -Rob
> >
> >
> >
> > -------- Forwarded Message --------
> > Subject:      Re: Advice on project logo
> > Date: Mon, 23 Sep 2019 07:02:14 -0600
> > From: Kenneth Paskett <kp@apache.org> <mailto:kp@apache.org>
> > To:   Rob Tompkins <chtompki@gmail.com> <mailto:chtompki@gmail.com>,
Sally Khudairi <sk@apache.org> <mailto:sk@apache.org>
> >
> > Hi Rob -
> >
> > I've played off what you provided to come up with the attached. Your version concerned
me that it was too similar to the original Apache Logo, and from a glance may not come across
as the Commons projects. The attached is my proposal back to you. There's a version with just
Apache Commons, as well as 3 versions to show how it would look with the Sub Projects name
included.
> >
> > Please let me know any feedback you might have, and then I can work to output the
rest of the sub projects.
> >
> > Thanks,
> > ~Kenneth
> >
> > On Fri, Sep 13, 2019 at 2:26 PM Kenneth Paskett <kp@apache.org <mailto:kp@apache.org>>
wrote:
> > Hi Rob -
> >
> > I hope you had a fruitful conference.
> >
> > Thanks for sending this over. I like the direction this is moving. I have a couple
concerns that I need to run past Sally and then a few minor tweaks I would want to make visually.
> >
> > I'll be back in touch with you soon.
> >
> > ~Kenneth
> >
> > On Fri, Sep 13, 2019, 11:44 AM Rob Tompkins <chtompki@gmail.com <mailto:chtompki@gmail.com>>
wrote:
> > Sorry we didn’t end up connecting. I’ve got a pass at what I would think the
logo might look like. Let me know what you think. -Rob
> >
> >
> >
> >> On Sep 11, 2019, at 12:07 PM, Kenneth Paskett <kp@apache.org <mailto:kp@apache.org>>
wrote:
> >>
> >> I have some assignments this morning, but most the afternoon I'm available,
just let me know what time works for you.
> >>
> >> ~Kenneth
> >>
> >> On Tue, Sep 10, 2019, 8:30 PM Rob Tompkins <chtompki@gmail.com <mailto:chtompki@gmail.com>>
wrote:
> >> Hey Kennith,
> >>
> >> Sorry we didn’t connect. I ended up taking a nap in the afternoon. What does
your day look like tomorrow?
> >>
> >> Cheers,
> >> -Rob
> >>
> >>> On Sep 10, 2019, at 2:59 PM, Kenneth Paskett <kp@apache.org <mailto:kp@apache.org>>
wrote:
> >>>
> >>> Rob,
> >>>
> >>> I'm free for most the rest of the afternoon, just checked in the Hackathon
room but didn't find you. When and where would be a good time to meet up for you and I'll
make it work.
> >>>
> >>> ~Kenneth
> >>>
> >>> On Mon, Sep 9, 2019, 6:03 PM Rob Tompkins <chtompki@gmail.com <mailto:chtompki@gmail.com>>
wrote:
> >>> Sure I’d be happy to talk at some time tomorrow. Let me know when you’re
free. I’ll likely be in the hackathon room for a good portion of the day.
> >>>
> >>> Cheers,
> >>> -Rob
> >>>
> >>>> On Sep 9, 2019, at 2:47 PM, Kenneth Paskett <kp@apache.org <mailto:kp@apache.org>>
wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>> Hi Rob -
> >>>>
> >>>> I'm here at ApacheCon this week, and would be happy to sit down with
you and others from the Commons group to talk about your logo update. Let me             
                                           know what time works best for your group.
> >>>>
> >>>> ~Kenneth
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> On Mon, Sep 9, 2019 at 12:08 PM Rob Tompkins <chtompki@gmail.com
<mailto:chtompki@gmail.com>> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> > On Sep 9, 2019, at 11:31 AM, Gilles Sadowski <gilleseran@gmail.com
<mailto:gilleseran@gmail.com>> wrote:
> >>>> >
> >>>> > Hi.
> >>>> >
> >>>> > Le lun. 9 sept. 2019 à 12:35, Sally Khudairi <sk@apache.org
<mailto:sk@apache.org>> a écrit :
> >>>> >>
> >>>> >> Thank you, Gilles.
> >>>> >>
> >>>> >> I'm copying Kenneth Paskett, creative lead from Central Services.
I was talking to him about this opportunity yesterday: we will be happy to explore options
for a future design.
> >>>>
> >>>> Just curious, who on this transmission is at ApacheCon this week. Having
worked with Sally in the past on an ad-hoc logo for the DC road show earlier this year, I
could sit down with her and see if we can get something analogous to what we have in place
currently that satisfies everyone (granted my designs tend to be minimalist in nature).
> >>>>
> >>>> Thoughts?
> >>>>
> >>>> -Rob
> >>>>
> >>>> >>
> >>>> >> I'm not saying "don't use anything that remotely looks like
the feather". It's important that if we choose to use an ASF-feather-inspired motif that it
doesn't look like it's a "broken" version of the original.
> >>>> >
> >>>> > It was certainly not the intention.
> >>>> > It is difficult/impossible to argue on things that boil down
> >>>> > to a matter of taste or arbitrary policy (like the kinds of
> >>>> > reuse that are allowed and not by the rights owner).
> >>>> >
> >>>> >> Ways around that issue could involve the shape or color of
the feather, among other adjustments.
> >>>> >
> >>>> > Exactly what I meant: IMHO those changes are more "broken"
> >>>> > than a rotation. ;-)
> >>>> > [But if they are allowed, then fine.]
> >>>> >
> >>>> >> Thank you and the community for your trust. We look forward
to working with you.
> >>>> >
> >>>> > Hopefully, preferences will be collected in the thread which I
> >>>> > mentioned in the previous message, and the community can
> >>>> > converge on a few ideas to help with the design.
> >>>> >
> >>>> > Best regards,
> >>>> > Gilles
> >>>> >
> >>>> >>
> >>>> >> Best,
> >>>> >> Sally
> >>>> >>
> >>>> >> - - -
> >>>> >> Vice President Marketing & Publicity
> >>>> >> Vice President Sponsor Relations
> >>>> >> The Apache Software Foundation
> >>>> >>
> >>>> >> Tel +1 617 921 8656 | sk@apache.org <mailto:sk@apache.org>
> >>>> >>
> >>>> >> On Mon, Sep 9, 2019, at 03:22, Gilles Sadowski wrote:
> >>>> >>> Hello.
> >>>> >>>
> >>>> >>> Le sam. 7 sept. 2019 à 13:29, Sally Khudairi <sk@apache.org
<mailto:sk@apache.org>> a écrit :
> >>>> >>>>
> >>>> >>>> Thank you, Gilles. I appreciate you reaching out.
> >>>> >>>>
> >>>> >>>> Normally I encourage PMCs to not re-orient or "spindle"
the feather where possible, but I understand that some legacy logos have a bit of a problem
with positioning. For example, the Apache HTTP Server logo:
> >>>> >>>>
> >>>> >>>> - original logo https://twitter.com/apache_httpd/photo
<https://twitter.com/apache_httpd/photo>
> >>>> >>>> - interim logo https://britewire.com/apache-http-server/
<https://britewire.com/apache-http-server/>
> >>>> >>>> - new logo https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/comdev/project-logos/originals/httpd.svg
<https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/comdev/project-logos/originals/httpd.svg>
> >>>> >>>
> >>>> >>> So is the choice between
> >>>> >>> * use the exact same feather as the foundation's
> >>>> >>> * not use anything that even remotely looks like feather
> >>>> >>> ?
> >>>> >>>
> >>>> >>>> Whilst I understand the proposed design, I'm not *loving*
the look of the logo, particularly as Apache Commons has such a massive footprint across so
many projects.
> >>>> >>>>
> >>>> >>>> To that end, may I ask a favor?
> >>>> >>>>
> >>>> >>>> Would you and the Apache Commons PMC be amenable to
considering having Central Services --a somewhat new sub-group of ASF Marketing & Publicity--
help you with creating a new logo?
> >>>> >>>
> >>>> >>> Help from experts is welcome.
> >>>> >>>
> >>>> >>>> If you are not in a rush, we can see how we can help
you.
> >>>> >>>
> >>>> >>> I don't think we should be in a rush, as the proposal to
change the
> >>>> >>> projects' logo(s) dates back from 3 years ago.[1]
> >>>> >>>
> >>>> >>>> ApacheCon North America starts on Monday, and we can
start the discussions on what your requirements are and the best way to meet your needs.
> >>>> >>>
> >>>> >>> I can only speak about of my preferences:[2]
> >>>> >>> * At most 2 or 3 graphical elements reminiscent of the
project
> >>>> >>> (feather included, if applicable)
> >>>> >>> * No URL
> >>>> >>> * Clearly visible at all (reasonable) resolutions [3]
> >>>> >>> * Combinable with 1 additional grahical element (so that
we can
> >>>> >>> easily create one logo for each of the many components
hosted
> >>>> >>> in "Commons" [4]
> >>>> >>>
> >>>> >>>> ApacheCon Europe is taking place in October: I was
thinking the timeframe between the two events (~6 weeks) would be sufficient for us to have
a few proposals developed.
> >>>> >>>
> >>>> >>> Great.
> >>>> >>>
> >>>> >>>> If this works for you, we can get started this week.
> >>>> >>>
> >>>> >>> Fine with me.
> >>>> >>>
> >>>> >>>> If not, I understand. You may proceed with the proposed
logo with the intention of revisiting and updating in future.
> >>>> >>>
> >>>> >>> Now is a good time.
> >>>> >>> Indeed, that logo is not favoured by the community (at
least the few
> >>>> >>> who voiced their opinion).[5]  And, IMHO, the alternatives
are failing
> >>>> >>> what I consider basic requirements (cf. above).[6]
> >>>> >>>
> >>>> >>>> Many kind thanks again for your attention and consideration.
> >>>> >>>>
> >>>> >>>> Warm regards,
> >>>> >>>> Sally
> >>>> >>>
> >>>> >>> Thank you very much for the offer,
> >>>> >>> Gilles
> >>>> >>>
> >>>> >>> [1] https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/COMMONSSITE-86
<https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/COMMONSSITE-86>
> >>>> >>> [2] Discussion thread:
> >>>> >>>    https://markmail.org/message/twsre7wl6jmue6mp <https://markmail.org/message/twsre7wl6jmue6mp>
> >>>> >>> [3] For example, when I look at the top left of the Apache's
JIRA pages:
> >>>> >>>    https://issues.apache.org/jira/secure/Dashboard.jspa
<https://issues.apache.org/jira/secure/Dashboard.jspa>
> >>>> >>> I see either a bad logo, or an inadequate use of it.
> >>>> >>> [4] See e.g. http://commons.apache.org/proper/commons-rng/
<http://commons.apache.org/proper/commons-rng/>
> >>>> >>> [5] Lacking feedback, I opted for an upgrade of the feather
using
> >>>> >>> the foundation's new graphics keeping the old (and supposedly
> >>>> >>> consensual) idea for the feather orientation.
> >>>> >>> [6] Even though it's great that Loic Guibert was willing
to provide
> >>>> >>> idea and a few examples.
> >>>> >>>
> >>>> >>>>
> >>>> >>>> Tel +1 617 921 8656 | sk@apache.org <mailto:sk@apache.org>
> >>>> >>>>
> >>>> >>>> On Fri, Sep 6, 2019, at 17:18, Gilles Sadowski wrote:
> >>>> >>>>> Hello.
> >>>> >>>>>
> >>>> >>>>> We, at Apache Commons, would like to know whether
an Apache
> >>>> >>>>> project  is authorized to extract graphical elements
from the
> >>>> >>>>> foundation's logo, apply some transformation to
them, and use
> >>>> >>>>> the result in order to compose its own logo.
> >>>> >>>>>
> >>>> >>>>> Case in point is here:
> >>>> >>>>>    https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/comdev/project-logos/originals/commons.svg
<https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/comdev/project-logos/originals/commons.svg>
> >>>> >>>>> (where the feather has been rotated).
> >>>> >>>>>
> >>>> >>>>> Does it constitute a breach of the recommendations
published in
> >>>> >>>>> the "Identity Style Guide"?[1]
> >>>> >>>>>
> >>>> >>>>> Thank you,
> >>>> >>>>> Gilles Sadowski
> >>>> >>>>>
> >>>> >>>>> [1] https://apache.org/foundation/press/kit/ApacheFoundation_StyleGuide.pdf
<https://apache.org/foundation/press/kit/ApacheFoundation_StyleGuide.pdf>
> >>>> >>>>>
> >>>> >
> >>>> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
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> >>>> > For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@commons.apache.org <mailto:dev-help@commons.apache.org>
> >>>> >
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>
> >
> > <Commons-Configuration.jpg><Commons-BSF.jpg><Commons.jpg><Commons-DBUtils.jpg>
>

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