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From Gilles Sadowski <gillese...@gmail.com>
Subject Re: Advice on project logo
Date Mon, 09 Sep 2019 18:31:23 GMT
Hi.

Le lun. 9 sept. 2019 à 12:35, Sally Khudairi <sk@apache.org> a écrit :
>
> Thank you, Gilles.
>
> I'm copying Kenneth Paskett, creative lead from Central Services. I was talking to him
about this opportunity yesterday: we will be happy to explore options for a future design.
>
> I'm not saying "don't use anything that remotely looks like the feather". It's important
that if we choose to use an ASF-feather-inspired motif that it doesn't look like it's a "broken"
version of the original.

It was certainly not the intention.
It is difficult/impossible to argue on things that boil down
to a matter of taste or arbitrary policy (like the kinds of
reuse that are allowed and not by the rights owner).

> Ways around that issue could involve the shape or color of the feather, among other adjustments.

Exactly what I meant: IMHO those changes are more "broken"
than a rotation. ;-)
[But if they are allowed, then fine.]

> Thank you and the community for your trust. We look forward to working with you.

Hopefully, preferences will be collected in the thread which I
mentioned in the previous message, and the community can
converge on a few ideas to help with the design.

Best regards,
Gilles

>
> Best,
> Sally
>
> - - -
> Vice President Marketing & Publicity
> Vice President Sponsor Relations
> The Apache Software Foundation
>
> Tel +1 617 921 8656 | sk@apache.org
>
> On Mon, Sep 9, 2019, at 03:22, Gilles Sadowski wrote:
> > Hello.
> >
> > Le sam. 7 sept. 2019 à 13:29, Sally Khudairi <sk@apache.org> a écrit :
> > >
> > > Thank you, Gilles. I appreciate you reaching out.
> > >
> > > Normally I encourage PMCs to not re-orient or "spindle" the feather where possible,
but I understand that some legacy logos have a bit of a problem with positioning. For example,
the Apache HTTP Server logo:
> > >
> > >  - original logo https://twitter.com/apache_httpd/photo
> > >  - interim logo https://britewire.com/apache-http-server/
> > >  - new logo https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/comdev/project-logos/originals/httpd.svg
> >
> > So is the choice between
> >  * use the exact same feather as the foundation's
> >  * not use anything that even remotely looks like feather
> > ?
> >
> > > Whilst I understand the proposed design, I'm not *loving* the look of the logo,
particularly as Apache Commons has such a massive footprint across so many projects.
> > >
> > > To that end, may I ask a favor?
> > >
> > > Would you and the Apache Commons PMC be amenable to considering having Central
Services --a somewhat new sub-group of ASF Marketing & Publicity-- help you with creating
a new logo?
> >
> > Help from experts is welcome.
> >
> > > If you are not in a rush, we can see how we can help you.
> >
> > I don't think we should be in a rush, as the proposal to change the
> > projects' logo(s) dates back from 3 years ago.[1]
> >
> > > ApacheCon North America starts on Monday, and we can start the discussions
on what your requirements are and the best way to meet your needs.
> >
> > I can only speak about of my preferences:[2]
> >  * At most 2 or 3 graphical elements reminiscent of the project
> >  (feather included, if applicable)
> >  * No URL
> >  * Clearly visible at all (reasonable) resolutions [3]
> >  * Combinable with 1 additional grahical element (so that we can
> > easily create one logo for each of the many components hosted
> > in "Commons" [4]
> >
> > > ApacheCon Europe is taking place in October: I was thinking the timeframe between
the two events (~6 weeks) would be sufficient for us to have a few proposals developed.
> >
> > Great.
> >
> > > If this works for you, we can get started this week.
> >
> > Fine with me.
> >
> > > If not, I understand. You may proceed with the proposed logo with the intention
of revisiting and updating in future.
> >
> > Now is a good time.
> > Indeed, that logo is not favoured by the community (at least the few
> > who voiced their opinion).[5]  And, IMHO, the alternatives are failing
> > what I consider basic requirements (cf. above).[6]
> >
> > > Many kind thanks again for your attention and consideration.
> > >
> > > Warm regards,
> > > Sally
> >
> > Thank you very much for the offer,
> > Gilles
> >
> > [1] https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/COMMONSSITE-86
> > [2] Discussion thread:
> >     https://markmail.org/message/twsre7wl6jmue6mp
> > [3] For example, when I look at the top left of the Apache's JIRA pages:
> >     https://issues.apache.org/jira/secure/Dashboard.jspa
> > I see either a bad logo, or an inadequate use of it.
> > [4] See e.g. http://commons.apache.org/proper/commons-rng/
> > [5] Lacking feedback, I opted for an upgrade of the feather using
> > the foundation's new graphics keeping the old (and supposedly
> > consensual) idea for the feather orientation.
> > [6] Even though it's great that Loic Guibert was willing to provide
> > idea and a few examples.
> >
> > >
> > > Tel +1 617 921 8656 | sk@apache.org
> > >
> > > On Fri, Sep 6, 2019, at 17:18, Gilles Sadowski wrote:
> > > > Hello.
> > > >
> > > > We, at Apache Commons, would like to know whether an Apache
> > > > project  is authorized to extract graphical elements from the
> > > > foundation's logo, apply some transformation to them, and use
> > > > the result in order to compose its own logo.
> > > >
> > > > Case in point is here:
> > > >     https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/comdev/project-logos/originals/commons.svg
> > > > (where the feather has been rotated).
> > > >
> > > > Does it constitute a breach of the recommendations published in
> > > > the "Identity Style Guide"?[1]
> > > >
> > > > Thank you,
> > > > Gilles Sadowski
> > > >
> > > > [1] https://apache.org/foundation/press/kit/ApacheFoundation_StyleGuide.pdf
> > > >

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