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From Gilles Sadowski <gillese...@gmail.com>
Subject Re: Advice on project logo
Date Sun, 15 Sep 2019 20:13:18 GMT
Could we please use *one* (and the original) thread to collect ideas?

Gilles

Le dim. 15 sept. 2019 à 19:47, Rob Tompkins <chtompki@gmail.com> a écrit :
>
>
>
> > On Sep 15, 2019, at 8:10 AM, Gary Gregory <garydgregory@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > I do not think we need "Project", we're not a 70s progrock band ;-)
>
> I like the Alan Parsons Project, a little :-P
> >
> >> On Sun, Sep 15, 2019, 07:45 Rob Tompkins <chtompki@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> Here’s a potential logo that I mocked up and sent to Kenneth. Does anyone
have any opinions on this? I felt like something similar to the one that Sally sent across
for the HTTP project seemed reasonable.
> >>
> >> Also, I think that it’s not exactly adherent to the style guide and that Kenneth
plans on putting something together that’s analogous and adhere’s to the style guide.
> >>
> >> Thoughts? -Rob
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>> On Sep 9, 2019, at 3:17 PM, Gary Gregory <garydgregory@gmail.com>
wrote:
> >>>
> >>> The KISS solution would be to get "Central" to produce not just the Commons
> >>> logo but one for each component and be done. The even simpler path is to
> >>> forgo component specific logos, especially since Commons is just one Apache
> >>> project. I like simpler...
> >>>
> >>> Gary
> >>>
> >>>> On Mon, Sep 9, 2019, 15:08 Rob Tompkins <chtompki@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>> On Sep 9, 2019, at 11:31 AM, Gilles Sadowski <gilleseran@gmail.com>
> >>>> wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Hi.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> Le lun. 9 sept. 2019 à 12:35, Sally Khudairi <sk@apache.org>
a écrit :
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Thank you, Gilles.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> I'm copying Kenneth Paskett, creative lead from Central Services.
I was
> >>>> talking to him about this opportunity yesterday: we will be happy to
> >>>> explore options for a future design.
> >>>>
> >>>> Just curious, who on this transmission is at ApacheCon this week. Having
> >>>> worked with Sally in the past on an ad-hoc logo for the DC road show
> >>>> earlier this year, I could sit down with her and see if we can get
> >>>> something analogous to what we have in place currently that satisfies
> >>>> everyone (granted my designs tend to be minimalist in nature).
> >>>>
> >>>> Thoughts?
> >>>>
> >>>> -Rob
> >>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> I'm not saying "don't use anything that remotely looks like
the
> >>>> feather". It's important that if we choose to use an ASF-feather-inspired
> >>>> motif that it doesn't look like it's a "broken" version of the original.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> It was certainly not the intention.
> >>>>> It is difficult/impossible to argue on things that boil down
> >>>>> to a matter of taste or arbitrary policy (like the kinds of
> >>>>> reuse that are allowed and not by the rights owner).
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> Ways around that issue could involve the shape or color of the
feather,
> >>>> among other adjustments.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Exactly what I meant: IMHO those changes are more "broken"
> >>>>> than a rotation. ;-)
> >>>>> [But if they are allowed, then fine.]
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> Thank you and the community for your trust. We look forward
to working
> >>>> with you.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Hopefully, preferences will be collected in the thread which I
> >>>>> mentioned in the previous message, and the community can
> >>>>> converge on a few ideas to help with the design.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Best regards,
> >>>>> Gilles
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Best,
> >>>>>> Sally
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> - - -
> >>>>>> Vice President Marketing & Publicity
> >>>>>> Vice President Sponsor Relations
> >>>>>> The Apache Software Foundation
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Tel +1 617 921 8656 | sk@apache.org
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>> On Mon, Sep 9, 2019, at 03:22, Gilles Sadowski wrote:
> >>>>>>> Hello.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Le sam. 7 sept. 2019 à 13:29, Sally Khudairi <sk@apache.org>
a écrit :
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Thank you, Gilles. I appreciate you reaching out.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Normally I encourage PMCs to not re-orient or "spindle"
the feather
> >>>> where possible, but I understand that some legacy logos have a bit of
a
> >>>> problem with positioning. For example, the Apache HTTP Server logo:
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> - original logo https://twitter.com/apache_httpd/photo
> >>>>>>>> - interim logo https://britewire.com/apache-http-server/
> >>>>>>>> - new logo
> >>>> https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/comdev/project-logos/originals/httpd.svg
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> So is the choice between
> >>>>>>> * use the exact same feather as the foundation's
> >>>>>>> * not use anything that even remotely looks like feather
> >>>>>>> ?
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Whilst I understand the proposed design, I'm not *loving*
the look of
> >>>> the logo, particularly as Apache Commons has such a massive footprint
> >>>> across so many projects.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> To that end, may I ask a favor?
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Would you and the Apache Commons PMC be amenable to
considering
> >>>> having Central Services --a somewhat new sub-group of ASF Marketing
&
> >>>> Publicity-- help you with creating a new logo?
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Help from experts is welcome.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> If you are not in a rush, we can see how we can help
you.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> I don't think we should be in a rush, as the proposal to
change the
> >>>>>>> projects' logo(s) dates back from 3 years ago.[1]
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> ApacheCon North America starts on Monday, and we can
start the
> >>>> discussions on what your requirements are and the best way to meet your
> >>>> needs.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> I can only speak about of my preferences:[2]
> >>>>>>> * At most 2 or 3 graphical elements reminiscent of the project
> >>>>>>> (feather included, if applicable)
> >>>>>>> * No URL
> >>>>>>> * Clearly visible at all (reasonable) resolutions [3]
> >>>>>>> * Combinable with 1 additional grahical element (so that
we can
> >>>>>>> easily create one logo for each of the many components hosted
> >>>>>>> in "Commons" [4]
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> ApacheCon Europe is taking place in October: I was thinking
the
> >>>> timeframe between the two events (~6 weeks) would be sufficient for
us to
> >>>> have a few proposals developed.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Great.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> If this works for you, we can get started this week.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Fine with me.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> If not, I understand. You may proceed with the proposed
logo with the
> >>>> intention of revisiting and updating in future.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Now is a good time.
> >>>>>>> Indeed, that logo is not favoured by the community (at least
the few
> >>>>>>> who voiced their opinion).[5]  And, IMHO, the alternatives
are failing
> >>>>>>> what I consider basic requirements (cf. above).[6]
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Many kind thanks again for your attention and consideration.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Warm regards,
> >>>>>>>> Sally
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Thank you very much for the offer,
> >>>>>>> Gilles
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> [1] https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/COMMONSSITE-86
> >>>>>>> [2] Discussion thread:
> >>>>>>>   https://markmail.org/message/twsre7wl6jmue6mp
> >>>>>>> [3] For example, when I look at the top left of the Apache's
JIRA
> >>>> pages:
> >>>>>>>   https://issues.apache.org/jira/secure/Dashboard.jspa
> >>>>>>> I see either a bad logo, or an inadequate use of it.
> >>>>>>> [4] See e.g. http://commons.apache.org/proper/commons-rng/
> >>>>>>> [5] Lacking feedback, I opted for an upgrade of the feather
using
> >>>>>>> the foundation's new graphics keeping the old (and supposedly
> >>>>>>> consensual) idea for the feather orientation.
> >>>>>>> [6] Even though it's great that Loic Guibert was willing
to provide
> >>>>>>> idea and a few examples.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Tel +1 617 921 8656 | sk@apache.org
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> On Fri, Sep 6, 2019, at 17:18, Gilles Sadowski wrote:
> >>>>>>>>> Hello.
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> We, at Apache Commons, would like to know whether
an Apache
> >>>>>>>>> project  is authorized to extract graphical elements
from the
> >>>>>>>>> foundation's logo, apply some transformation to
them, and use
> >>>>>>>>> the result in order to compose its own logo.
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> Case in point is here:
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>> https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/comdev/project-logos/originals/commons.svg
> >>>>>>>>> (where the feather has been rotated).
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> Does it constitute a breach of the recommendations
published in
> >>>>>>>>> the "Identity Style Guide"?[1]
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> Thank you,
> >>>>>>>>> Gilles Sadowski
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> [1]
> >>>> https://apache.org/foundation/press/kit/ApacheFoundation_StyleGuide.pdf
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>
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> >>>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
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> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>
> >
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