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From ASF IRC Bot <asf...@urd.zones.apache.org>
Subject Summary of IRC Meeting in #couchdb-meeting
Date Wed, 08 Oct 2014 19:48:12 GMT
Summary of IRC Meeting in #couchdb-meeting at Wed Oct  8 19:12:36 2014:

Attendees: Wohali, dch, Kxepal, sagelywizard, jan____, chewbranca

- Preface
- CouchDB 2.0
- Fauxton
- open floor
  - Action: jan____ to cut a 1.x.x branch
  - Action: kxepal to propose a 1.7 release that includes deprecations for what is already
in master (and expected to hit 2.0)
  - Action: kxepal to take lead on fixing broken eunit stuff 
  - Action: sagelywizard to get closure on his thread and commit view sequence work as experimental
  - Action: wohali to send email with suggested last steps before we move towards a 2.0 release
  - Action: jan____  to help with s/futon/fauxton


IRC log follows:

## Preface ##
[Wed Oct  8 19:12:38 2014] <Wohali>: i missed that
[Wed Oct  8 19:12:38 2014] <Wohali>: doh
## CouchDB 2.0 ##
[Wed Oct  8 19:12:45 2014] <Wohali>: so things are pretty settled on master at this
point
[Wed Oct  8 19:12:48 2014] <Wohali>: aside from the view changes code that sagelywizard__
has been working on
[Wed Oct  8 19:12:51 2014] <Wohali>: (which I am inclined to have committed now, as
experimental)
[Wed Oct  8 19:13:01 2014] <Wohali>: we should start moving towards a release IMO
[Wed Oct  8 19:13:05 2014] <Wohali>: and working out the last few things that need fixing
[Wed Oct  8 19:13:08 2014] <Wohali>: to my mind that is:
[Wed Oct  8 19:13:19 2014] <Wohali>: * Cluster setup, it's ugly, we need a better solution
[Wed Oct  8 19:13:29 2014] <Wohali>: * s/futon/Fauxton and remove futon from the build
[Wed Oct  8 19:13:33 2014] <Wohali>: * docs
[Wed Oct  8 19:13:47 2014] <Wohali>: comments?
[Wed Oct  8 19:13:57 2014] <Kxepal>: I'd like to add some cleanup in at least config
values
[Wed Oct  8 19:14:16 2014] <Wohali>: is there a ticket/short description you can provide?
[Wed Oct  8 19:14:25 2014] <jan____>: I’m happy to lead on the cluster setup thing,
as per my proposal recently
[Wed Oct  8 19:14:26 2014] <Kxepal>: + fixing eunit and doing more testing
[Wed Oct  8 19:14:38 2014] <Wohali>: i thought testing was working
[Wed Oct  8 19:14:43 2014] <Wohali>: if it's broken obviously not
[Wed Oct  8 19:14:54 2014] <Wohali>: jan____: good, i knoew rnewson wanted to talk about
that with you
[Wed Oct  8 19:14:55 2014] <Kxepal>: there are some suites are disabled for now
[Wed Oct  8 19:15:06 2014] <Wohali>: Kxepal: do you feel that is a release blocker?
[Wed Oct  8 19:15:20 2014] <Kxepal>: Wohali: I do since we aren't sure in the behaviour.
[Wed Oct  8 19:15:31 2014] <Wohali>: okay. are you volunteering? :)
[Wed Oct  8 19:15:34 2014] <Kxepal>: yes
[Wed Oct  8 19:15:43 2014] <Wohali>: hooray
[Wed Oct  8 19:15:54 2014] <Wohali>: are there any Fauxtoneers here?
[Wed Oct  8 19:15:58 2014] <Wohali>: i know robertkowalski is busy today
[Wed Oct  8 19:16:11 2014] <Wohali>: not sure if garren is free
[Wed Oct  8 19:16:39 2014] <Wohali>: but putting fauxton default in the build and ripping
out futon is long overdue
[Wed Oct  8 19:16:59 2014] <Wohali>: and i think we solved the where does jquery.couch.js
live problem too
[Wed Oct  8 19:17:13 2014] <Kxepal>: yes, we did
[Wed Oct  8 19:17:17 2014] <Wohali>: good
[Wed Oct  8 19:17:31 2014] <Wohali>: any other thoughts from people present?
[Wed Oct  8 19:17:54 2014] <jan____>: I think I agree with the plans :)
[Wed Oct  8 19:18:11 2014] <Wohali>: ok
[Wed Oct  8 19:18:12 2014] <jan____>: happy to lend a hand, especially with ripping
out jquery.couch.js
[Wed Oct  8 19:18:35 2014] <Kxepal>: it's in safe place already P:
[Wed Oct  8 19:18:49 2014] <jan____>: :)
[Wed Oct  8 19:19:16 2014] <Wohali>: ok 
[Wed Oct  8 19:19:37 2014] <Wohali>: so let's move ahead, I can get a summary email
on this to dev@
[Wed Oct  8 19:20:06 2014] <Wohali>: there is alsot his little thing called ApacheCon
EU. it sure would be nice to have a beta or release by then ;) ;)
[Wed Oct  8 19:20:33 2014] <Wohali>: next topic
[Wed Oct  8 19:20:40 2014] <Wohali>: we don't seem to have any fauxtoneers here i'm
afraid
[Wed Oct  8 19:20:51 2014] <Wohali>: but i can say that there is lots of good work being
done
[Wed Oct  8 19:20:51 2014] <dch>: in the dark, so to speak.
[Wed Oct  8 19:21:08 2014] <Wohali>: lots of new commits and new people joining up to
help every day
[Wed Oct  8 19:21:17 2014] <Wohali>: even pouch guys submitted a PR
[Wed Oct  8 19:21:20 2014] <Wohali>: so that's very nice.
[Wed Oct  8 19:21:41 2014] <jan____>: +1 really happy to see that
[Wed Oct  8 19:21:55 2014] <Kxepal>: +1
[Wed Oct  8 19:22:11 2014] <Kxepal>: hope to see the same activity for other couchdb-*
repos one day (:
[Wed Oct  8 19:22:13 2014] <jan____>: (the takeaway is that breaking out things into
smaller repos really helps with contributions, especially the non-erlang bits
[Wed Oct  8 19:22:17 2014] <jan____>: (
[Wed Oct  8 19:22:20 2014] <Wohali>: (totally!)
[Wed Oct  8 19:22:21 2014] <jan____>: )
[Wed Oct  8 19:22:26 2014] <Kxepal>: )
[Wed Oct  8 19:22:32 2014] <Wohali>: is anyone around who wants to talk about view sequences?
[Wed Oct  8 19:22:40 2014] <Wohali>: that would be benoitc sagelywizard
[Wed Oct  8 19:22:50 2014] <Wohali>: am guessing no
[Wed Oct  8 19:23:13 2014] <Wohali>: oops
[Wed Oct  8 19:23:14 2014] <chewbranca>: late comment, but it would be great to get
as many of the eunit test suites fixed as possible
## Fauxton ##
[Wed Oct  8 19:23:19 2014] <jan____>: the thing to note then is that this is an ongoing
discussion on dev@
[Wed Oct  8 19:24:38 2014] <Wohali>: view sequences is, though the discussion is not
getting any input on how that interface will be used. i am inclined to move that we commit
it as experimental and get more input as we start to build out things that use it like chained
mapreduce.
[Wed Oct  8 19:24:53 2014] <Wohali>: chewbranca: *nod* looks like kxepal volunteered
:)
[Wed Oct  8 19:25:27 2014] <chewbranca>: Wohali: a few of them are pretty tricky
[Wed Oct  8 19:25:29 2014] <jan____>: Wohali: is it relevant to the “replicate from
views” feature?
[Wed Oct  8 19:25:38 2014] <jan____>: releaventrelated
[Wed Oct  8 19:25:59 2014] <chewbranca>: timing bugs in compaction tests and fun things
like that
[Wed Oct  8 19:26:31 2014] <Wohali>: jan____: Yeah, anything that requires an view sequence
index. _changes on views, etc. the rcoucn implementation, near as I can tell is missing two
key components: deleted rows, and duplicate keys
[Wed Oct  8 19:26:55 2014] <Wohali>: chewbranca: ugh, fun. and presumably inserting
artificial delays isn't sufficient
[Wed Oct  8 19:27:30 2014] <Wohali>: jan____: in either case, I don't think biulding
"replicating from views" or 'chained map reduce" is going to hit in time for a 2.0 release,
so I'd rather get the functionality in as experimental, then revisit what changes are required
to build something useful on top of it in a 2.1 timeframe.
[Wed Oct  8 19:27:34 2014] <chewbranca>: nope, that rarely ever works well, but I tried
it and it didn't work for everything
[Wed Oct  8 19:27:34 2014] <jan____>: Wohali: curious, so replication should not work,
but it is clearly advertised as such (and I believed used in the wild)
[Wed Oct  8 19:27:54 2014] <jan____>: Wohali: sounds like a plan!
[Wed Oct  8 19:27:55 2014] <Wohali>: jan____: rnewson has more detail here, and I'm
afraid I can't address it
[Wed Oct  8 19:28:13 2014] <jan____>: Wohali: alright, let’s leave it at dev@
[Wed Oct  8 19:28:19 2014] <Wohali>: distributed systems are hard, let's go shopping.
[Wed Oct  8 19:29:07 2014] <Wohali>: hrm
## open floor ##
[Wed Oct  8 19:29:16 2014] <Wohali>: not sure what others have here?
[Wed Oct  8 19:29:38 2014] <jan____>: ACTION clumsily falls through the open floor
[Wed Oct  8 19:30:48 2014] <Wohali>: TL;DR version of minutes: lots of change. time
to test and release.
[Wed Oct  8 19:31:09 2014] <Wohali>: anyone else? i'll close in 60s if not
[Wed Oct  8 19:31:24 2014] <chewbranca>: quick clarification on view changes
[Wed Oct  8 19:31:38 2014] <dch>: how much related docs are needed to ship this?
[Wed Oct  8 19:32:37 2014] <chewbranca>: jan____: from what I understand from talking
to rnewson, is that the underlying problem with view changes is that negative updates are
not propagated, so for instance if you have a doc that emits 10 rows and then update the doc
resulting in it only emitting 3 rows, then there isn't a mechanism to make "delete" changes
for those rows
[Wed Oct  8 19:33:30 2014] <jan____>: chewbranca: as implemented in rcouch?
[Wed Oct  8 19:34:06 2014] <chewbranca>: jan____: rcouch and the couchdb implementation
from what I understand, although rnewson, sagelywizard, and benoitc could comment more accurately

[Wed Oct  8 19:34:54 2014] <jan____>: chewbranca: where does “the couchdb implemetnation”
come from? is that BC heritage, rcouch heritage, merge or clean room?
[Wed Oct  8 19:35:27 2014] <Wohali>: my understanding is that it started with the rcouch
implementation and evolved from there.
[Wed Oct  8 19:35:29 2014] <chewbranca>: jan____: I believe sagelywizard took the version
in rcouch and updated it
[Wed Oct  8 19:35:33 2014] <Wohali>: ^^^
[Wed Oct  8 19:35:46 2014] <jan____>: aye
[Wed Oct  8 19:35:51 2014] <Wohali>: updated for fabric changes, etc.
[Wed Oct  8 19:36:08 2014] <jan____>: ok, I’ll do some research then, this seems like
an odd omission
[Wed Oct  8 19:36:09 2014] <chewbranca>: https://github.com/apache/couchdb-couch-mrview/pull/2
[Wed Oct  8 19:36:48 2014] <Wohali>: actually, it looks like benoitc did a +1 here so
we should just merge it
[Wed Oct  8 19:37:00 2014] <sagelywizard>: If you change a doc to emit fewer rows, that
update will propagate.
[Wed Oct  8 19:37:10 2014] <Wohali>: there's the man
[Wed Oct  8 19:37:29 2014] <chewbranca>: outdated +1 fwiw
[Wed Oct  8 19:37:41 2014] <Wohali>: is it? ok
[Wed Oct  8 19:37:42 2014] <Kxepal>: Wohali: oh..I recall one topic
[Wed Oct  8 19:37:42 2014] <chewbranca>: sagelywizard: that's recent though right?
[Wed Oct  8 19:38:00 2014] <Wohali>: Kxepal: k, let's close this out
[Wed Oct  8 19:38:03 2014] <Kxepal>: but may be ML is better place for it
[Wed Oct  8 19:38:15 2014] <Kxepal>: 1.7 and API deprecation (:
[Wed Oct  8 19:38:32 2014] <Wohali>: Kxepal: I didn't see a list of APis that were actually
deprecated but yes, I think we agreed
[Wed Oct  8 19:38:52 2014] <chewbranca>: sagelywizard: you should sync up with rnewson
;-)
[Wed Oct  8 19:38:54 2014] <Kxepal>: Wohali: I had already sent differences I found
+ may be something had already changed.
[Wed Oct  8 19:39:14 2014] <Kxepal>: + there are some plans to change moar bits
[Wed Oct  8 19:39:22 2014] <Kxepal>: while there is time for
[Wed Oct  8 19:39:24 2014] <Wohali>: are you ready for a PR against the 1.6.x branch
to make a 1.7? we obviusly can't cut 1.7 from master now. :)
[Wed Oct  8 19:39:31 2014] <Wohali>: obviously*
[Wed Oct  8 19:39:46 2014] <Kxepal>: Wohali: to PR what?
[Wed Oct  8 19:39:47 2014] <Wohali>: Kxepal: "change more bits?" watch out, would those
also hit master?
[Wed Oct  8 19:39:47 2014] <sagelywizard>: chewbranca: There was a bug in the _view_changes
UI code which Bob found. Been fixed since then. Maybe that's what you're thinking of?
[Wed Oct  8 19:40:00 2014] <Wohali>: Kxepal: A PR for a 1.7 release on deprecation documentation.
[Wed Oct  8 19:40:00 2014] <jan____>: ah yes, on that note, I suggest we make a 1.x.x
branch, so we can do 1.7.x and forther from it
[Wed Oct  8 19:40:10 2014] <Wohali>: jan____: agree
[Wed Oct  8 19:40:10 2014] <Kxepal>: Wohali: change more bits in api for 2.0
[Wed Oct  8 19:40:11 2014] <jan____>: *further
[Wed Oct  8 19:40:28 2014] <Wohali>: Kxepal: I suggest we don't, at this point. 
[Wed Oct  8 19:40:39 2014] <sagelywizard>: chewbranca: And yeah. Bob has been busy though.
[Wed Oct  8 19:40:43 2014] <Kxepal>: Wohali: sure + eunit I have to do
[Wed Oct  8 19:40:49 2014] <Wohali>: exactly
[Wed Oct  8 19:40:55 2014] <Wohali>: we need to get past 2.0
[Wed Oct  8 19:41:06 2014] <Wohali>: then doing tweaks for 2.1/3.0 aren't coupled with
zOMG BIG CHANGE
[Wed Oct  8 19:41:17 2014] <jan____>: this
[Wed Oct  8 19:41:30 2014] <Kxepal>: ok, let's discuss the detailed plan in ML
[Wed Oct  8 19:41:33 2014] <Wohali>: great.
[Wed Oct  8 19:41:35 2014] <dch>: might be better leaving significant deprecation for
after 2.0
[Wed Oct  8 19:41:50 2014] <dch>: already a significant amt of changes
[Wed Oct  8 19:41:50 2014] <Wohali>: dch: yeah, I think kxepal is just talking about
anything that is already on master that resulted in a deprecation
[Wed Oct  8 19:42:00 2014] <dch>: gotcha
[Wed Oct  8 19:42:08 2014] <Kxepal>: yes
[Wed Oct  8 19:42:17 2014] <Wohali>: #action jan____ to cut a 1.x.x branch
[Wed Oct  8 19:42:23 2014] <jan____>: nah, let’s remove all _ fields from doc json
*hids*
[Wed Oct  8 19:42:33 2014] <Wohali>: #action kxepal to propose a 1.7 release that includes
deprecations for what is already in master (and expected to hit 2.0)
[Wed Oct  8 19:42:41 2014] <Kxepal>: jan____: +1 (:
[Wed Oct  8 19:42:53 2014] <Wohali>: #action kxepal to take lead on fixing broken eunit
stuff 
[Wed Oct  8 19:43:08 2014] <Wohali>: #action sagelywizard to get closure on his thread
and commit view sequence work as experimental
[Wed Oct  8 19:43:23 2014] <Wohali>: #action wohali to send email with suggested last
steps before we move towards a 2.0 release
[Wed Oct  8 19:43:26 2014] <Wohali>: did i capture everything?
[Wed Oct  8 19:43:59 2014] <jan____>: #action jan____  to help with s/futon/fauxton
[Wed Oct  8 19:44:09 2014] <Wohali>: ah yes thanks
[Wed Oct  8 19:44:11 2014] <Kxepal>: good point!
[Wed Oct  8 19:44:15 2014] <Wohali>: tap garren for help if you see it
[Wed Oct  8 19:44:19 2014] <Wohali>: that was going to be on my email
[Wed Oct  8 19:45:34 2014] <Wohali>: anyone else?
[Wed Oct  8 19:45:43 2014] <dch>: Wohali: I mentioned “what about docs"
[Wed Oct  8 19:46:00 2014] <Wohali>: that's in my email but
[Wed Oct  8 19:46:03 2014] <dch>: basically what do we *need* to ship with.
[Wed Oct  8 19:46:06 2014] <Wohali>: if you have somethign to contribute, you have the
floor :)
[Wed Oct  8 19:46:07 2014] <dch>: all good then.
[Wed Oct  8 19:46:54 2014] <Kxepal>: dch: something we could pick up from http://bigcouch.cloudant.com/
but mostly all need to be revised in the fact to match 2.0 behavior
[Wed Oct  8 19:46:57 2014] <Wohali>: i'll be asking for volunteers to run all the docs
against a 2.0 release and make sure they're accurate
[Wed Oct  8 19:47:02 2014] <Kxepal>: especially imported stuff from the guide
[Wed Oct  8 19:47:09 2014] <dch>: mmmm
[Wed Oct  8 19:47:16 2014] <Wohali>: the guide is going to need a rework.....
[Wed Oct  8 19:47:45 2014] <Wohali>: that's upt o nslater and jan____ 
[Wed Oct  8 19:47:49 2014] <Wohali>: ok everyone
[Wed Oct  8 19:47:51 2014] <Wohali>: thanks for coming!
[Wed Oct  8 19:47:55 2014] <Wohali>: ASFBot: meeting end


Meeting ended at Wed Oct  8 19:47:55 2014

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