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From "Michael J. Segel" <mse...@segel.com>
Subject Derby Development and IDEs?
Date Thu, 20 Oct 2005 03:29:13 GMT
Sorry if this is slightly off topic, but since the individuals on this list 
are doing actual development with Derby, thought I might be able to get a 
decent survey on what combinations seem to work best....

I've been "playing" around with the following java IDEs: NetBeans, Eclipse, 
and Websphere App Dev (Based on Eclipse).

Now I realize that choosing an IDE is pretty personal, but I hope we can be 
honest about what works and what doesn't.

Now I've used to use Kawa, way back when, so if someone has another 
recommendation, please feel free to step up.

NetBeans:  This is an OpenSource IDE that I believe is bundled and 
downloadable from the Sun Java site. Has a hook to PointBase, didn't see 
anything to allow Derby or any other database. 

Positives: Nice look and feel, easy to get around, however, when I want to 
expand the code window to a full screen for easier editing, not that straight 

Negatives: No easy way to add in Derby.
		They lock their generated code sections which makes life a little more 
difficult.  I'm not really happy with how they auto generate some of their 
code. Makes things a little difficult to get things done. In some cases, hand 
written GUI code is still faster to generate.

Note: A simple example is if you try to generate some code that is similar to 
the tutorials. Not that easy to do. ( I think one example would be if you 
wanted to set an action listener for each menu where each menu item would 
modify a status string.)

Eclipse 3.1:	This is an opensource Apache project driven IDE. Lots of nice 
bells and whistles, albeit a little rough around the edges. My Linux version 
craps out quite a bit, while I haven't pushed the window's version that hard.

Pluses:	Its free.
		It allows for visual development of GUI elements.
		Great RDBMs connectivity. Derby, Informix, DB2... (Ok I'll even mention 
		Has all the built in features that would allow one to write good code and 
test against a local database for Unit testing/ Bean Testing.
		Has the ability to also deal with architecting issues (UML)...
		Doesn't block you from adding your own code in to the generated code.

	1) Used primarily on my Linux box. Flakes out and dumps on me a couple times 
a day. (Could be my set up, but I'm going to go out on a limb and say that 
there's still some gaps.)
	2) Location of some of the components not in the ideal place. Yet easy to 
expand the code window. Note you can move some of the components to different 
views so that take's care of some of the problems.  With WS App Dev sharing 
some of the same heritage, see my comparison below...

Websphere AD:	Based on the same technology as Eclipse. Seems to be more 
stable. (I only have a window's copy.) Easiest to work with. Allowing more 
freedom in mixing my built gui stuff with their base frames. (This is true of 
Eclipse.)  I haven't tried importing my Derby stuff to that platform, (next 
step) but Websphere is Eclipse.

A good example would be a Mercedes E55 and then a Mercedes E55 AMG (AMG is an 
aftermarket company that tunes up your Mercedes to a higher performance rig. 
Adds about 10-20K to the base price of the car, if not more.... ;-)

Bottom line. I felt that there was enough of a difference to justify the price 
difference between WS and Eclipse.

Ok having said all of that, what other tools are out there and what are your 
opinions of them?

As a consultant, I'll use what ever gets toss'd at me. However, I'm open to 
all ideas that make sense.

Again, while this may be a little off topic, I think it would aid the group in 
promoting good working enviornments for Derby development.

I realize that my experiences come from trying to deal with these IDES and get 
up to speed in a short time. Other's experiences and insights will vary. 
(Thats why I'm trying to gain a concensus.... ;-)


Michael Segel
(312) 952-8175

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