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From Xiaoyu Yao <x...@hortonworks.com>
Subject Re: [DISCUSS] Making submarine to different release model like Ozone
Date Fri, 01 Feb 2019 19:02:46 GMT
+1, thanks for bringing this up, Wangda. This will help expanding the Hadoop ecosystem by supporting
new AI/ML workloads. 

Thanks,
Xiaoyu
On 2/1/19, 10:58 AM, "Dinesh Chitlangia" <dchitlangia@hortonworks.com> wrote:

    +1 This is a fantastic recommendation given the increasing interest in ML across the globe.
    
    Thanks,
    Dinesh
    
    
    
    On 2/1/19, 1:54 PM, "Ajay Kumar" <ajay.kumar@hortonworks.com> wrote:
    
        +1, Thanks for driving this. With rise of use cases running ML along with traditional
applications this will be of great help.
        
        Thanks,
        Ajay   
        
        On 2/1/19, 10:49 AM, "Suma Shivaprasad" <sumasai.shivaprasad@gmail.com> wrote:
        
            +1. Thanks for bringing this up Wangda.
            
            Makes sense to have Submarine follow its own release cadence given the good
            momentum/adoption so far. Also, making it run with older versions of Hadoop
            would drive higher adoption.
            
            Suma
            
            On Fri, Feb 1, 2019 at 9:40 AM Eric Yang <eyang@hortonworks.com> wrote:
            
            > Submarine is an application built for YARN framework, but it does not have
            > strong dependency on YARN development.  For this kind of projects, it would
            > be best to enter Apache Incubator cycles to create a new community.  Apache
            > commons is the only project other than Incubator that has independent
            > release cycles.  The collection is large, and the project goal is
            > ambitious.  No one really knows which component works with each other in
            > Apache commons.  Hadoop is a much more focused project on distributed
            > computing framework and not incubation sandbox.  For alignment with Hadoop
            > goals, and we want to prevent Hadoop project to be overloaded while
            > allowing good ideas to be carried forwarded in Apache incubator.  Put on
my
            > Apache Member hat, my vote is -1 to allow more independent subproject
            > release cycle in Hadoop project that does not align with Hadoop project
            > goals.
            >
            > Apache incubator process is highly recommended for Submarine:
            > https://incubator.apache.org/policy/process.html This allows Submarine to
            > develop for older version of Hadoop like Spark works with multiple versions
            > of Hadoop.
            >
            > Regards,
            > Eric
            >
            > On 1/31/19, 10:51 PM, "Weiwei Yang" <abvclouds@gmail.com> wrote:
            >
            >     Thanks for proposing this Wangda, my +1 as well.
            >     It is amazing to see the progress made in Submarine last year, the
            > community grows fast and quiet collaborative. I can see the reasons to get
            > it release faster in its own cycle. And at the same time, the Ozone way
            > works very well.
            >
            >     —
            >     Weiwei
            >     On Feb 1, 2019, 10:49 AM +0800, Xun Liu <neliuxun@163.com>, wrote:
            >     > +1
            >     >
            >     > Hello everyone,
            >     >
            >     > I am Xun Liu, the head of the machine learning team at Netease
            > Research Institute. I quite agree with Wangda.
            >     >
            >     > Our team is very grateful for getting Submarine machine learning
            > engine from the community.
            >     > We are heavy users of Submarine.
            >     > Because Submarine fits into the direction of our big data team's
            > hadoop technology stack,
            >     > It avoids the needs to increase the manpower investment in learning
            > other container scheduling systems.
            >     > The important thing is that we can use a common YARN cluster to
run
            > machine learning,
            >     > which makes the utilization of server resources more efficient,
and
            > reserves a lot of human and material resources in our previous years.
            >     >
            >     > Our team have finished the test and deployment of the Submarine
and
            > will provide the service to our e-commerce department (
            > http://www.kaola.com/) shortly.
            >     >
            >     > We also plan to provides the Submarine engine in our existing YARN
            > cluster in the next six months.
            >     > Because we have a lot of product departments need to use machine
            > learning services,
            >     > for example:
            >     > 1) Game department (http://game.163.com/) needs AI battle training,
            >     > 2) News department (http://www.163.com) needs news recommendation,
            >     > 3) Mailbox department (http://www.163.com) requires anti-spam and
            > illegal detection,
            >     > 4) Music department (https://music.163.com/) requires music
            > recommendation,
            >     > 5) Education department (http://www.youdao.com) requires voice
            > recognition,
            >     > 6) Massive Open Online Courses (https://open.163.com/) requires
            > multilingual translation and so on.
            >     >
            >     > If Submarine can be released independently like Ozone, it will help
            > us quickly get the latest features and improvements, and it will be great
            > helpful to our team and users.
            >     >
            >     > Thanks hadoop Community!
            >     >
            >     >
            >     > > 在 2019年2月1日,上午2:53,Wangda Tan <wheeleast@gmail.com>
写道:
            >     > >
            >     > > Hi devs,
            >     > >
            >     > > Since we started submarine-related effort last year, we received
a
            > lot of
            >     > > feedbacks, several companies (such as Netease, China Mobile,
etc.)
            > are
            >     > > trying to deploy Submarine to their Hadoop cluster along with
big
            > data
            >     > > workloads. Linkedin also has big interests to contribute a
            > Submarine TonY (
            >     > > https://github.com/linkedin/TonY) runtime to allow users to
use
            > the same
            >     > > interface.
            >     > >
            >     > > From what I can see, there're several issues of putting Submarine
            > under
            >     > > yarn-applications directory and have same release cycle with
            > Hadoop:
            >     > >
            >     > > 1) We started 3.2.0 release at Sep 2018, but the release is
done
            > at Jan
            >     > > 2019. Because of non-predictable blockers and security issues,
it
            > got
            >     > > delayed a lot. We need to iterate submarine fast at this point.
            >     > >
            >     > > 2) We also see a lot of requirements to use Submarine on older
            > Hadoop
            >     > > releases such as 2.x. Many companies may not upgrade Hadoop
to 3.x
            > in a
            >     > > short time, but the requirement to run deep learning is urgent
to
            > them. We
            >     > > should decouple Submarine from Hadoop version.
            >     > >
            >     > > And why we wanna to keep it within Hadoop? First, Submarine
            > included some
            >     > > innovation parts such as enhancements of user experiences for
YARN
            >     > > services/containerization support which we can add it back
to
            > Hadoop later
            >     > > to address common requirements. In addition to that, we have
a big
            > overlap
            >     > > in the community developing and using it.
            >     > >
            >     > > There're several proposals we have went through during Ozone
merge
            > to trunk
            >     > > discussion:
            >     > >
            > https://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/hadoop-common-dev/201803.mbox/%3CCAHfHakH6_m3YLdf5a2KQ8+w-5fbVX5aHFgS-x1VaJW8gmnzRLg@mail.gmail.com%3E
            >     > >
            >     > > I propose to adopt Ozone model: which is the same master branch,
            > different
            >     > > release cycle, and different release branch. It is a great
example
            > to show
            >     > > agile release we can do (2 Ozone releases after Oct 2018) with
less
            >     > > overhead to setup CI, projects, etc.
            >     > >
            >     > > *Links:*
            >     > > - JIRA: https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/YARN-8135
            >     > > - Design doc
            >     > > <
            > https://docs.google.com/document/d/199J4pB3blqgV9SCNvBbTqkEoQdjoyGMjESV4MktCo0k/edit
            > >
            >     > > - User doc
            >     > > <
            > https://hadoop.apache.org/docs/r3.2.0/hadoop-yarn/hadoop-yarn-applications/hadoop-yarn-submarine/Index.html
            > >
            >     > > (3.2.0
            >     > > release)
            >     > > - Blogposts, {Submarine} : Running deep learning workloads
on
            > Apache Hadoop
            >     > > <
            > https://hortonworks.com/blog/submarine-running-deep-learning-workloads-apache-hadoop/
            > >,
            >     > > (Chinese Translation: Link <https://www.jishuwen.com/d/2Vpu>)
            >     > > - Talks: Strata Data Conf NY
            >     > > <
            > https://conferences.oreilly.com/strata/strata-ny-2018/public/schedule/detail/68289
            > >
            >     > >
            >     > > Thoughts?
            >     > >
            >     > > Thanks,
            >     > > Wangda Tan
            >     >
            >     >
            >     >
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