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From Denis Mekhanikov <dmekhani...@gmail.com>
Subject Re: Time to remove automated messages from the devlist?
Date Thu, 15 Nov 2018 16:06:33 GMT
Dmitriy,

> I do believe Igniters can set up a filter.
I doesn't mean we should make them do it.

How do JIRA messages help?
If you want do discuss something – write to dev list.
If you want a code review – write to dev list.
If you have an announcement – write to dev list.
I don't see, how JIRA messages can replace any of these points.

Literally nobody ever answered a message from JIRA bot.
I think, that only watchers of JIRA tickets should be notified about
updates.
There is no point in sending messages to everyone.

Denis

чт, 15 нояб. 2018 г. в 18:50, Dmitriy Pavlov <dpavlov@apache.org>:

> I do believe Igniters can set up a filter.
>
> JIRA ticket is an intention to be done by contributors in future.
>
> If PMC member admits decisions are made off the list and just provided as
> fact-in-the-past for others - it really signs poor community health. So for
> me, it is not reasonable to fight with JIRA messages it is reasonable to
> grow a culture of on-list development. If we don't have it, JIRA should
> remain here.
>
> чт, 15 нояб. 2018 г. в 18:30, Denis Mekhanikov <dmekhanikov@gmail.com>:
>
> > Dmitriy,
> >
> > If we want people to act openly and community-friendly, then we should
> make
> > it a part of the required development process.
> > Otherwise people just won't care about it.
> > Moreover, all JIRA tickets are open for everyone, so no openness would be
> > violated if we made a separate mailing list for bots.
> > JIRA tickets are just as easy to search through, as the emails.
> >
> > If you write anything to the dev list, then only the once, who spent half
> > an hour, configuring the email filters will see it.
> > Others won't notice it, because it will get lost among the flood of spam
> > messages from bots.
> >
> > If you are interested in receiving the JIRA notifications, you could
> > subscribe to ignite-bots (or even ignite-jira) mailing list,
> > and keep track of what happens there. It would simplify filtering,
> because
> > you should only filter out the corresponding recipient.
> >
> > Currently if you want to filter out all messages from bots, you should
> > enumerate all possible topics, that bots may generate.
> > And since the number of bots only grows with time, the filter should be
> > kept in actual state, otherwise messages will spill into the inbox.
> >
> > Denis
> >
> > чт, 15 нояб. 2018 г. в 17:58, Dmitriy Pavlov <dpavlov@apache.org>:
> >
> > > Hi Denis,
> > >
> > > Another side of this decision is the openness of the development.
> > >
> > > Since not all contributors pay attention to run their development in an
> > > open/community friendly manner:
> > > - to announce important features, and
> > > - Telegraph their intent
> > > - Draft designs openly
> > > - Submit work in chunks
> > > - Welcome feedback along the way
> > > http://shaneslides.com/apachecon/TheApacheWay-ApacheConNA2018.html#24
> > >
> > > we can't just remove JIRA from the list.
> > >
> > > Today JIRA forwarding is an only way to keep Ignite development easy to
> > > follow by subscribing to dev. list.
> > >
> > > If we came to practice that all contributors announce important
> features
> > > and bugs, JIRA can be removed. Now it can't.
> > >
> > > Which problem we can solve by removing JIRA from the list?
> > >
> > > Sincerely,
> > > Dmitriy Pavlov
> > >
> > > чт, 15 нояб. 2018 г. в 17:34, Denis Mekhanikov <dmekhanikov@gmail.com
> >:
> > >
> > > > Guys,
> > > >
> > > > I vote for moving automatically generated messages to a separate
> > mailing
> > > > list (maybe except most important ones).
> > > > I already wrote about it here:
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
> http://apache-ignite-developers.2346864.n4.nabble.com/Bots-on-dev-list-td34406.html
> > > >
> > > > What we have now makes the Nabble portal an absolute mess with no
> > ability
> > > > to track human communication.
> > > > It's even hard to search for old discussions, because messages about
> > JIRA
> > > > tickets and git commit messages pop in the search results.
> > > >
> > > > Making every person configure email filters is waisting everybody's
> > time.
> > > > Just imagine, how many human-hours has been spent on it.
> > > > We should respect time of others, and make the separation of emails
> on
> > > the
> > > > sending side.
> > > >
> > > > Denis
> > > >
> > > > чт, 15 нояб. 2018 г. в 13:20, Dmitriy Pavlov <dpavlov@apache.org>:
> > > >
> > > > > IMO we need to run a formal vote on this change, and then PMC chair
> > can
> > > > > create (or reuse) a separate list for messages from Git repos.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > ср, 14 нояб. 2018 г. в 16:08, Vladimir Ozerov <
> vozerov@gridgain.com
> > >:
> > > > >
> > > > > > Igniters,
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I would say that "set the filter" is not a solution. First,
it is
> > not
> > > > > > always possible technically. E.g. I use GMail and my dev-list
> > emails
> > > > are
> > > > > > already use a rule. I cannot extract generated emails from
> overall
> > > flow
> > > > > > with GMail capabilities. But the more important things - is
why
> in
> > > the
> > > > > > first place someone needs to went through that generated
> nightmare?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Git messages is a spam. Looks like everyone agrees with that.
As
> > far
> > > as
> > > > > > JIRA ticket creation - this is all about importance. When someone
> > > > writes
> > > > > an
> > > > > > email to the devlist, this is likely to be important topic
> > requiring
> > > > > > attention. When someone creates a ticket, most likely this
> either a
> > > > bug,
> > > > > or
> > > > > > a piece of already discussed issue, or so. In other words -
> average
> > > > > devlist
> > > > > > user is likely to be interested in manual messages and is very
> > > unlikely
> > > > > to
> > > > > > be interested in "Ticket created" messages. Not important
> > information
> > > > > > overshadows important. Let's continue disucssion this.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > As far as Git - what should be done to remove Git messages from
> the
> > > > list?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Vladimir.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > On Tue, Nov 6, 2018 at 6:49 PM Dmitriy Pavlov <
> > dpavlov.spb@gmail.com
> > > >
> > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > Petr, some manual digest, is probably not needed because
Apache
> > > list
> > > > > > allows
> > > > > > > subscribing to digest. dev-digest-subsribe@ignite.apache.org
> if
> > I
> > > > > > remember
> > > > > > > this correctly.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > вт, 6 нояб. 2018 г. в 18:28, Petr Ivanov <mr.weider@gmail.com
> >:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Can be Jira notifications united in some kind of daily
> digest?
> > > > > > > > Maybe we can add special filter (new tasks / updates
during
> > last
> > > 24
> > > > > > > hours)
> > > > > > > > with notification scheme?
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > On 6 Nov 2018, at 18:15, Dmitriy Pavlov <
> > dpavlov.spb@gmail.com
> > > >
> > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > I should mention I disagree to remove JIRA issues
as the
> > first
> > > > > step.
> > > > > > It
> > > > > > > > > helps everyone to understand what other people
are going to
> > do
> > > in
> > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > project.  You always can comment if it is not
the best
> > > approach,
> > > > > > find a
> > > > > > > > > duplicate issue, and you may suggest help.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > PR notification is more or less duplicates JIRA
(as 1 JIRA
> > 1..*
> > > > > PR),
> > > > > > so
> > > > > > > > it
> > > > > > > > > may be ok to move Git's messages to
> > > > > notifications@ignite.apache.org
> > > > > > > > > <notifications@ignite.apache.orgб>
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > But we should keep JIRA and test failures.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > вт, 6 нояб. 2018 г. в 17:49, Alexey Kuznetsov
<
> > > > > akuznetsov@apache.org
> > > > > > >:
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >> Hi!
> > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > >> I have filter for e-mail from JIRA (very
useful, I can
> quick
> > > > > search
> > > > > > > > issue
> > > > > > > > >> there without visiting JIRA).
> > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > >> And I'm just deleting tons of e-mails from
GitBox & about
> > PRs.
> > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > >> I don't know what for we need them?
> > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > >> May by we try to move GitBox & PRs-related
mails first and
> > see
> > > > how
> > > > > > it
> > > > > > > > goes?
> > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > >> --
> > > > > > > > >> Alexey Kuznetsov
> > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>

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