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From "Carbone, Adam" <Adam.Carb...@bottomline.com>
Subject Re: Apache Ignite 3.0
Date Fri, 14 Aug 2020 15:04:27 GMT
If you want to make is simpler to have the components that you want, but have that be immutable
at install time you could take an approach similar to the way spring does it with their initializer
( https://start.spring.io/ )  as an example... Basically the concept being something that
produces a set of configurations that are used to define what the environment looks like (
these could be k8s objects ) they could be spring-configuration objects? They could be something
that you develop all upon ignite ( probably wouldn’t recommend this approach )  there seems
to be plenty of these types of things already 

Example
* https://spring.io/guides/gs/centralized-configuration 
* https://cocoon.apache.org/subprojects/configuration/spring-configurator/index.html

And I'm by no means saying to use spring these are just examples that I came across

I'm thinking the outcome needs to be a platform config of source ( that can be checked in
for those doing gitops ) and maybe ends up as a config map for those doing k8s, and some other
fashion for those doing something else. 

Honestly I am not deep enough into the internals of ignite to know how this might work for
the platform, was more describing what I'm seeing from a bigger picture trend 

Regards 

Adam Carbone | Director of Innovation – Intelligent Platform Team | Bottomline Technologies
Office: 603-501-6446 | Mobile: 603-570-8418
www.bottomline.com
 
 

On 8/13/20, 7:55 PM, "Valentin Kulichenko" <valentin.kulichenko@gmail.com> wrote:

    Hi Ilya,
    
    Can you please describe your vision of how it should work?
    
    Let's say, I want to set up a cluster of several standalone server nodes
    with a couple of optional modules enabled. What are my steps?
    
    -Val
    
    On Thu, Aug 13, 2020 at 6:03 AM Carbone, Adam <Adam.Carbone@bottomline.com>
    wrote:
    
    > Good Morning from the EastCoast
    >
    > I have to agree that the larger industry is tending towards immutability,
    > and that you build once and test, then you promote/migrate that immutable
    > binary object, be is a library or a docker image etc... however there are
    > still patterns that allow you to determine at install/or deployment time (
    > helm as an example, you choose based on your values what the package
    > installs/provides ) It just isn't decided at runtime but install and often
    > in a gitops type world that is determined by configuration as code. I think
    > run time is difficult to manage especially in our increasingly
    > containerized world.
    >
    > Regards.
    >
    > Adam Carbone | Director of Innovation – Intelligent Platform Team |
    > Bottomline Technologies
    > Office: 603-501-6446 | Mobile: 603-570-8418
    > www.bottomline.com
    >
    >
    >
    > On 8/13/20, 8:01 AM, "Ilya Kasnacheev" <ilya.kasnacheev@gmail.com> wrote:
    >
    >     Hello!
    >
    >     On the contrary, I would suggest that apache2 way was outdated even at
    >     times when apache was all rage.
    >
    >     Now the nginx approach is prevalent: on devops phase, assemble a custom
    >     bundle with all plugins included, store it somewhere, and ship it to
    >     production as a whole to remove any on-the-fly uncertainty from
    > production.
    >
    >     This is what docker does, but also maven, which downloads dependencies
    >     during build. You do not need to download anything in runtime, except
    > for
    >     experimental deployments. You need to be all set before runtime starts.
    >
    >     Regards,
    >     --
    >     Ilya Kasnacheev
    >
    >
    >     ср, 12 авг. 2020 г. в 09:48, Petr Ivanov <mr.weider@gmail.com>:
    >
    >     > Hi, Val.
    >     >
    >     > > On 12 Aug 2020, at 01:31, Valentin Kulichenko <
    >     > valentin.kulichenko@gmail.com> wrote:
    >     > >
    >     > > Hi Petr,
    >     > >
    >     > > I agree -- we should better modularize the platform. The current
    > way if
    >     > very error-prone, especially during upgrades -- any changes made
    > within
    >     > IGNITE_HOME (configs, scripts, modules, etc.) must be merged with a
    > new
    >     > version of the package. There is no standard way of doing this.
    >     > >
    >     > > However, I'm a bit concerned with your suggestion regarding custom
    >     > dependency management. Can you please elaborate on how you think it
    > should
    >     > work? Are there tools we can reuse for this purpose? I would try to
    > avoid
    >     > reinventing the wheel.
    >     >
    >     > I see it as a a2enmod | 2dismod analog of Apache2.
    >     >
    >     > We build and store Apache Ignite and its modules as separate binaries
    >     > (binary per module) then use custom script that will know where to
    > download
    >     > necessary module. Or possibly use modified ignite.sh to specify
    > required
    >     > optional libs in run command while ignite.sh will download everything
    >     > missing from known storage.
    >     >
    >     > The whole idea is in storing everything remotely and download on
    > demand,
    >     > not have all libs locally from the start.
    >     >
    >     >
    >     > >
    >     > > -Val
    >     > >
    >     > > On Sun, Aug 9, 2020 at 11:25 PM Petr Ivanov <mr.weider@gmail.com
    >     > <mailto:mr.weider@gmail.com>> wrote:
    >     > > Hi, Val!
    >     > > Thanks for your efforts on this endeavour!
    >     > >
    >     > >
    >     > > I would like to suggest deliveries changes in Apache Ignite 3.0:
    >     > >  — modularised  binary delivery — single minimal binary for
    > starting
    >     > Ignite and all other modules and parts of the project (benchmarks,
    >     > examples, etc.) packed in their own binary which can be added via
    > custom
    >     > dependency management tool (i.e. modules.sh)
    >     > >  — same distribution for RPM and DEB packages but with modules
    > packed as
    >     > separate ones (PHP for example)
    >     > >  — separate thin client release cycle with custom versioning
    >     > > Possibly, we can we add additional section to the document you
    >     > introduced for this part.
    >     > >
    >     > > Also, it seems that full JDK11 support (including building) would
    > be a
    >     > huge milestone and a sign of healthy modern project that tends to be
    > on the
    >     > verge of mainstream technologies and not the stockpile of legacy
    > leftovers
    >     > (fully support Iliya in removing all that was deprecated and/or
    > marked as
    >     > unused anymore).
    >     > >
    >     > >
    >     > > > On 8 Aug 2020, at 02:00, Valentin Kulichenko <
    >     > valentin.kulichenko@gmail.com <mailto:valentin.kulichenko@gmail.com
    > >>
    >     > wrote:
    >     > > >
    >     > > > Igniters,
    >     > > >
    >     > > > I've created the page:
    >     > > >
    > https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/IGNITE/Apache*Ignite*3.0__;Kys!!O3mv9RujDHg!2GlQzPzSAyxjW5tzyIzjaVVuR5_U_s65MCFLww8yIHRMzDqSrm5C2nkXYQErpm9uWJo_$
    > <
    >     >
    > https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/IGNITE/Apache*Ignite*3.0__;Kys!!O3mv9RujDHg!2GlQzPzSAyxjW5tzyIzjaVVuR5_U_s65MCFLww8yIHRMzDqSrm5C2nkXYQErpm9uWJo_$
    > >
    >     > > >
    >     > > > That's not everything I have in mind, but I believe there is
    > already a
    >     > lot
    >     > > > to talk about :)
    >     > > >
    >     > > > Please take a look let me know if you have any concerns,
    > objections, or
    >     > > > questions. Once we reach the consensus on the proposed changes,
    > I will
    >     > > > start creating tickets in Jira and a more detailed plan.
    >     > > >
    >     > > > -Val
    >     > > >
    >     > > > On Thu, Aug 6, 2020 at 6:28 PM Saikat Maitra <
    > saikat.maitra@gmail.com
    >     > <mailto:saikat.maitra@gmail.com>>
    >     > > > wrote:
    >     > > >
    >     > > >> Hi Denis, Val
    >     > > >>
    >     > > >> Thank you for your reply and really appreciate it. It will
be
    > very
    >     > cool to
    >     > > >> be able to connect and plan release together and learn more
    > about
    >     > Ignite in
    >     > > >> the process :)
    >     > > >>
    >     > > >> Regards
    >     > > >> Saikat
    >     > > >>
    >     > > >>
    >     > > >>
    >     > > >> On Thu, Aug 6, 2020 at 7:12 PM Valentin Kulichenko <
    >     > > >> valentin.kulichenko@gmail.com <mailto:
    > valentin.kulichenko@gmail.com>>
    >     > wrote:
    >     > > >>
    >     > > >>> Hi Saikat,
    >     > > >>>
    >     > > >>> That surely is a great idea. We will work together with
Denis
    > on
    >     > setting
    >     > > >>> this up in the nearest future.
    >     > > >>>
    >     > > >>> -Val
    >     > > >>>
    >     > > >>> On Thu, Aug 6, 2020 at 10:21 AM Denis Magda <dmagda@apache.org
    >     > <mailto:dmagda@apache.org>> wrote:
    >     > > >>>
    >     > > >>>> Saikat,
    >     > > >>>>
    >     > > >>>> Fully support your idea on a virtual meetup! Once
Val
    > collects and
    >     > > >>> outlines
    >     > > >>>> the main changes with directions on wiki, we’ll
go ahead and
    >     > schedule
    >     > > >> the
    >     > > >>>> meetup to talk things out in a bit more detail. We’ll
use our
    > new
    >     > > >> Virtual
    >     > > >>>> Ignite Meetup group for that inviting both Ignite
    > contributors and
    >     > > >>>> application developers.
    >     > > >>>>
    >     > > >>>> Denis
    >     > > >>>>
    >     > > >>>> On Thursday, August 6, 2020, Saikat Maitra <
    > saikat.maitra@gmail.com
    >     > <mailto:saikat.maitra@gmail.com>>
    >     > > >>>> wrote:
    >     > > >>>>
    >     > > >>>>> Hi Valentin
    >     > > >>>>>
    >     > > >>>>> Thank you for sharing and starting the thread.
I am thinking
    > if it
    >     > > >> will
    >     > > >>>> be
    >     > > >>>>> a good idea to have a virtual meet setup to discuss
on the
    > release
    >     > > >>>>> planning.
    >     > > >>>>>
    >     > > >>>>> It will help to learn more individual features
to be added
    > and also
    >     > > >> to
    >     > > >>>>> understand about features that have been deprecated
and
    > scheduled
    >     > for
    >     > > >>>>> removal in Ignite 3.0 release. Also it will help
community
    > member
    >     > to
    >     > > >>>>> connect in real time and ask questions and share
feedback.
    >     > > >>>>>
    >     > > >>>>> Regards,
    >     > > >>>>> Saikat
    >     > > >>>>>
    >     > > >>>>> On Thu, Aug 6, 2020 at 3:51 AM Ilya Kasnacheev
<
    >     > > >>>> ilya.kasnacheev@gmail.com <mailto:ilya.kasnacheev@gmail.com>>
    >     > > >>>>> wrote:
    >     > > >>>>>
    >     > > >>>>>> Hello!
    >     > > >>>>>>
    >     > > >>>>>> I hope to see Apache Ignite release 3.0 as
API trimming
    > release.
    >     > > >> Let
    >     > > >>> us
    >     > > >>>>>> correct external and internal APIs for which
we have better
    > ideas
    >     > > >>> now,
    >     > > >>>> as
    >     > > >>>>>> well as remove old and deprecated code.
    >     > > >>>>>>
    >     > > >>>>>> We may also introduce new configuration mechanisms
and
    > user-facing
    >     > > >>> API
    >     > > >>>>>> (such as cache-less native SQL queries), but
this we could
    >     > > >> prototype
    >     > > >>>>> before
    >     > > >>>>>> starting the 3.0 task.
    >     > > >>>>>>
    >     > > >>>>>> I will advise against targeting large new
features at 3.0.
    > They
    >     > can
    >     > > >>> be
    >     > > >>>>>> added in subsequent point releases, whereas
we can't really
    > remove
    >     > > >> or
    >     > > >>>>>> remodel stuff in point releases.
    >     > > >>>>>>
    >     > > >>>>>> Regards,
    >     > > >>>>>> --
    >     > > >>>>>> Ilya Kasnacheev
    >     > > >>>>>>
    >     > > >>>>>>
    >     > > >>>>>> чт, 6 авг. 2020 г. в 03:54, Valentin
Kulichenko <
    >     > > >>>>>> valentin.kulichenko@gmail.com <mailto:
    >     > valentin.kulichenko@gmail.com>>:
    >     > > >>>>>>
    >     > > >>>>>>> Igniters,
    >     > > >>>>>>>
    >     > > >>>>>>> I would like to kick off a discussion
regarding Ignite 3.0.
    >     > > >> Ignite
    >     > > >>>> 2.0
    >     > > >>>>>>> exists for more than 3 years now and we've
already
    > collected a
    >     > > >>>>>> significant
    >     > > >>>>>>> list [1] of changes that we would like
to have, but cannot
    >     > > >>> implement
    >     > > >>>>>>> without breaking compatibility.
    >     > > >>>>>>>
    >     > > >>>>>>> I think it's time to start planning for
the next major
    > release
    >     > > >> and
    >     > > >>>>>>> discussing what should be included. I've
already gathered
    > some
    >     > > >>>>>> information
    >     > > >>>>>>> and feedback, and have some thoughts on
how to approach
    > this. In
    >     > > >>> the
    >     > > >>>>> next
    >     > > >>>>>>> few days, I will put everything into a
Wiki page and will
    > share
    >     > > >> it
    >     > > >>>> once
    >     > > >>>>>>> this is done. Stay tuned!
    >     > > >>>>>>>
    >     > > >>>>>>> I'm willing to drive the 3.0 activities
going forward as
    > well.
    >     > > >>>>>>>
    >     > > >>>>>>> In the meantime, if there are any immediate
thoughts or
    > ideas,
    >     > > >>> please
    >     > > >>>>>> feel
    >     > > >>>>>>> free to join the thread and share them.
    >     > > >>>>>>>
    >     > > >>>>>>> [1]
    >     > > >>>>>>>
    >     > > >>>>>>>
    >     > > >>>>>>
    > https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/IGNITE/__;!!O3mv9RujDHg!2GlQzPzSAyxjW5tzyIzjaVVuR5_U_s65MCFLww8yIHRMzDqSrm5C2nkXYQErpp6mV7IJ$
    > <
    >     >
    > https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/IGNITE/__;!!O3mv9RujDHg!2GlQzPzSAyxjW5tzyIzjaVVuR5_U_s65MCFLww8yIHRMzDqSrm5C2nkXYQErpp6mV7IJ$
    > >
    >     > > >>>>> Apache+Ignite+3.0+Wishlist
    >     > > >>>>>>>
    >     > > >>>>>>> Regards,
    >     > > >>>>>>> Val
    >     > > >>>>>>>
    >     > > >>>>>>
    >     > > >>>>>
    >     > > >>>>
    >     > > >>>>
    >     > > >>>> --
    >     > > >>>> -
    >     > > >>>> Denis
    >     > > >>>>
    >     > > >>>
    >     > > >>
    >     > >
    >     >
    >     >
    >
    >
    >
    

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