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From Petr Ivanov <mr.wei...@gmail.com>
Subject Re: Apache Ignite 3.0
Date Thu, 13 Aug 2020 07:22:40 GMT
RPM/DEB will be easy to refactor that way —internal dependency management will help with
that.

We can start with simple task — divide package into at least the following modules:
 — apache-ignite: slim package with only necessary runtime libs and scripts (just like slim
binary)
 — apache-ignite-optional: package with optional libs
 — apache-ignite-benchmarks
 — apache-ignite-examples
 — apache-ignite-platforms

Later, we can further modularise apache-ignite-optional into per-lib package and add support
for extensions that are now in separate repository.

Everything will be stored at Apache Bintray in correct repository layout and benefit from
corresponding package management systems to install.


Also, for packages, I'd like to introduce version into naming, i.e. future package should
have name like apache-ignite3-3.0.0 — that should allow to have both AI 2.X and AI 3.X the
same time which can help users to migrate between major versions faster.

> On 12 Aug 2020, at 21:15, Valentin Kulichenko <valentin.kulichenko@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> Hi Petr,
> 
> Got it, that makes sense. I think we should rely on Maven for this. Basically, like the
mvnw wrapper, but specific for Ignite purposes (enable/disable a module, start/stop a node,
etc.). BTW, do you think RPM/DEB packages can use the same approach? Or they require that
binaries are stored in specific repositories?
> 
> -Val
> 
> On Tue, Aug 11, 2020 at 11:48 PM Petr Ivanov <mr.weider@gmail.com <mailto:mr.weider@gmail.com>>
wrote:
> Hi, Val.
> 
>> On 12 Aug 2020, at 01:31, Valentin Kulichenko <valentin.kulichenko@gmail.com <mailto:valentin.kulichenko@gmail.com>>
wrote:
>> 
>> Hi Petr,
>> 
>> I agree -- we should better modularize the platform. The current way if very error-prone,
especially during upgrades -- any changes made within IGNITE_HOME (configs, scripts, modules,
etc.) must be merged with a new version of the package. There is no standard way of doing
this.
>> 
>> However, I'm a bit concerned with your suggestion regarding custom dependency management.
Can you please elaborate on how you think it should work? Are there tools we can reuse for
this purpose? I would try to avoid reinventing the wheel.
> 
> I see it as a a2enmod | 2dismod analog of Apache2.
> 
> We build and store Apache Ignite and its modules as separate binaries (binary per module)
then use custom script that will know where to download necessary module. Or possibly use
modified ignite.sh to specify required optional libs in run command while ignite.sh will download
everything missing from known storage.
> 
> The whole idea is in storing everything remotely and download on demand, not have all
libs locally from the start.
> 
> 
>> 
>> -Val
>> 
>> On Sun, Aug 9, 2020 at 11:25 PM Petr Ivanov <mr.weider@gmail.com <mailto:mr.weider@gmail.com>>
wrote:
>> Hi, Val!
>> Thanks for your efforts on this endeavour!
>> 
>> 
>> I would like to suggest deliveries changes in Apache Ignite 3.0:
>>  — modularised  binary delivery — single minimal binary for starting Ignite and
all other modules and parts of the project (benchmarks, examples, etc.) packed in their own
binary which can be added via custom dependency management tool (i.e. modules.sh)
>>  — same distribution for RPM and DEB packages but with modules packed as separate
ones (PHP for example)
>>  — separate thin client release cycle with custom versioning
>> Possibly, we can we add additional section to the document you introduced for this
part.
>> 
>> Also, it seems that full JDK11 support (including building) would be a huge milestone
and a sign of healthy modern project that tends to be on the verge of mainstream technologies
and not the stockpile of legacy leftovers (fully support Iliya in removing all that was deprecated
and/or marked as unused anymore).
>> 
>> 
>> > On 8 Aug 2020, at 02:00, Valentin Kulichenko <valentin.kulichenko@gmail.com
<mailto:valentin.kulichenko@gmail.com>> wrote:
>> > 
>> > Igniters,
>> > 
>> > I've created the page:
>> > https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/IGNITE/Apache+Ignite+3.0 <https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/IGNITE/Apache+Ignite+3.0>
>> > 
>> > That's not everything I have in mind, but I believe there is already a lot
>> > to talk about :)
>> > 
>> > Please take a look let me know if you have any concerns, objections, or
>> > questions. Once we reach the consensus on the proposed changes, I will
>> > start creating tickets in Jira and a more detailed plan.
>> > 
>> > -Val
>> > 
>> > On Thu, Aug 6, 2020 at 6:28 PM Saikat Maitra <saikat.maitra@gmail.com <mailto:saikat.maitra@gmail.com>>
>> > wrote:
>> > 
>> >> Hi Denis, Val
>> >> 
>> >> Thank you for your reply and really appreciate it. It will be very cool
to
>> >> be able to connect and plan release together and learn more about Ignite
in
>> >> the process :)
>> >> 
>> >> Regards
>> >> Saikat
>> >> 
>> >> 
>> >> 
>> >> On Thu, Aug 6, 2020 at 7:12 PM Valentin Kulichenko <
>> >> valentin.kulichenko@gmail.com <mailto:valentin.kulichenko@gmail.com>>
wrote:
>> >> 
>> >>> Hi Saikat,
>> >>> 
>> >>> That surely is a great idea. We will work together with Denis on setting
>> >>> this up in the nearest future.
>> >>> 
>> >>> -Val
>> >>> 
>> >>> On Thu, Aug 6, 2020 at 10:21 AM Denis Magda <dmagda@apache.org <mailto:dmagda@apache.org>>
wrote:
>> >>> 
>> >>>> Saikat,
>> >>>> 
>> >>>> Fully support your idea on a virtual meetup! Once Val collects and
>> >>> outlines
>> >>>> the main changes with directions on wiki, we’ll go ahead and schedule
>> >> the
>> >>>> meetup to talk things out in a bit more detail. We’ll use our
new
>> >> Virtual
>> >>>> Ignite Meetup group for that inviting both Ignite contributors and
>> >>>> application developers.
>> >>>> 
>> >>>> Denis
>> >>>> 
>> >>>> On Thursday, August 6, 2020, Saikat Maitra <saikat.maitra@gmail.com
<mailto:saikat.maitra@gmail.com>>
>> >>>> wrote:
>> >>>> 
>> >>>>> Hi Valentin
>> >>>>> 
>> >>>>> Thank you for sharing and starting the thread. I am thinking
if it
>> >> will
>> >>>> be
>> >>>>> a good idea to have a virtual meet setup to discuss on the release
>> >>>>> planning.
>> >>>>> 
>> >>>>> It will help to learn more individual features to be added and
also
>> >> to
>> >>>>> understand about features that have been deprecated and scheduled
for
>> >>>>> removal in Ignite 3.0 release. Also it will help community member
to
>> >>>>> connect in real time and ask questions and share feedback.
>> >>>>> 
>> >>>>> Regards,
>> >>>>> Saikat
>> >>>>> 
>> >>>>> On Thu, Aug 6, 2020 at 3:51 AM Ilya Kasnacheev <
>> >>>> ilya.kasnacheev@gmail.com <mailto:ilya.kasnacheev@gmail.com>>
>> >>>>> wrote:
>> >>>>> 
>> >>>>>> Hello!
>> >>>>>> 
>> >>>>>> I hope to see Apache Ignite release 3.0 as API trimming
release.
>> >> Let
>> >>> us
>> >>>>>> correct external and internal APIs for which we have better
ideas
>> >>> now,
>> >>>> as
>> >>>>>> well as remove old and deprecated code.
>> >>>>>> 
>> >>>>>> We may also introduce new configuration mechanisms and user-facing
>> >>> API
>> >>>>>> (such as cache-less native SQL queries), but this we could
>> >> prototype
>> >>>>> before
>> >>>>>> starting the 3.0 task.
>> >>>>>> 
>> >>>>>> I will advise against targeting large new features at 3.0.
They can
>> >>> be
>> >>>>>> added in subsequent point releases, whereas we can't really
remove
>> >> or
>> >>>>>> remodel stuff in point releases.
>> >>>>>> 
>> >>>>>> Regards,
>> >>>>>> --
>> >>>>>> Ilya Kasnacheev
>> >>>>>> 
>> >>>>>> 
>> >>>>>> чт, 6 авг. 2020 г. в 03:54, Valentin Kulichenko <
>> >>>>>> valentin.kulichenko@gmail.com <mailto:valentin.kulichenko@gmail.com>>:
>> >>>>>> 
>> >>>>>>> Igniters,
>> >>>>>>> 
>> >>>>>>> I would like to kick off a discussion regarding Ignite
3.0.
>> >> Ignite
>> >>>> 2.0
>> >>>>>>> exists for more than 3 years now and we've already collected
a
>> >>>>>> significant
>> >>>>>>> list [1] of changes that we would like to have, but
cannot
>> >>> implement
>> >>>>>>> without breaking compatibility.
>> >>>>>>> 
>> >>>>>>> I think it's time to start planning for the next major
release
>> >> and
>> >>>>>>> discussing what should be included. I've already gathered
some
>> >>>>>> information
>> >>>>>>> and feedback, and have some thoughts on how to approach
this. In
>> >>> the
>> >>>>> next
>> >>>>>>> few days, I will put everything into a Wiki page and
will share
>> >> it
>> >>>> once
>> >>>>>>> this is done. Stay tuned!
>> >>>>>>> 
>> >>>>>>> I'm willing to drive the 3.0 activities going forward
as well.
>> >>>>>>> 
>> >>>>>>> In the meantime, if there are any immediate thoughts
or ideas,
>> >>> please
>> >>>>>> feel
>> >>>>>>> free to join the thread and share them.
>> >>>>>>> 
>> >>>>>>> [1]
>> >>>>>>> 
>> >>>>>>> 
>> >>>>>> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/IGNITE/ <https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/IGNITE/>
>> >>>>> Apache+Ignite+3.0+Wishlist
>> >>>>>>> 
>> >>>>>>> Regards,
>> >>>>>>> Val
>> >>>>>>> 
>> >>>>>> 
>> >>>>> 
>> >>>> 
>> >>>> 
>> >>>> --
>> >>>> -
>> >>>> Denis
>> >>>> 
>> >>> 
>> >> 
>> 
> 


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