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From Valentin Kulichenko <valentin.kuliche...@gmail.com>
Subject Re: Apache Ignite 3.0
Date Fri, 14 Aug 2020 00:15:30 GMT
Folks,

Since we all want 3.0 to be a "cleanup" release, I've added a section that
lists potential API removals:
https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/IGNITE/Apache+Ignite+3.0#ApacheIgnite3.0-Removals

Please take a look and let me know if there are any objections, or if there
is anything that should be added.

-Val

On Thu, Aug 13, 2020 at 4:55 PM Valentin Kulichenko <
valentin.kulichenko@gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi Ilya,
>
> Can you please describe your vision of how it should work?
>
> Let's say, I want to set up a cluster of several standalone server nodes
> with a couple of optional modules enabled. What are my steps?
>
> -Val
>
> On Thu, Aug 13, 2020 at 6:03 AM Carbone, Adam <Adam.Carbone@bottomline.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Good Morning from the EastCoast
>>
>> I have to agree that the larger industry is tending towards immutability,
>> and that you build once and test, then you promote/migrate that immutable
>> binary object, be is a library or a docker image etc... however there are
>> still patterns that allow you to determine at install/or deployment time (
>> helm as an example, you choose based on your values what the package
>> installs/provides ) It just isn't decided at runtime but install and often
>> in a gitops type world that is determined by configuration as code. I think
>> run time is difficult to manage especially in our increasingly
>> containerized world.
>>
>> Regards.
>>
>> Adam Carbone | Director of Innovation – Intelligent Platform Team |
>> Bottomline Technologies
>> Office: 603-501-6446 | Mobile: 603-570-8418
>> www.bottomline.com
>>
>>
>>
>> On 8/13/20, 8:01 AM, "Ilya Kasnacheev" <ilya.kasnacheev@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>     Hello!
>>
>>     On the contrary, I would suggest that apache2 way was outdated even at
>>     times when apache was all rage.
>>
>>     Now the nginx approach is prevalent: on devops phase, assemble a
>> custom
>>     bundle with all plugins included, store it somewhere, and ship it to
>>     production as a whole to remove any on-the-fly uncertainty from
>> production.
>>
>>     This is what docker does, but also maven, which downloads dependencies
>>     during build. You do not need to download anything in runtime, except
>> for
>>     experimental deployments. You need to be all set before runtime
>> starts.
>>
>>     Regards,
>>     --
>>     Ilya Kasnacheev
>>
>>
>>     ср, 12 авг. 2020 г. в 09:48, Petr Ivanov <mr.weider@gmail.com>:
>>
>>     > Hi, Val.
>>     >
>>     > > On 12 Aug 2020, at 01:31, Valentin Kulichenko <
>>     > valentin.kulichenko@gmail.com> wrote:
>>     > >
>>     > > Hi Petr,
>>     > >
>>     > > I agree -- we should better modularize the platform. The current
>> way if
>>     > very error-prone, especially during upgrades -- any changes made
>> within
>>     > IGNITE_HOME (configs, scripts, modules, etc.) must be merged with a
>> new
>>     > version of the package. There is no standard way of doing this.
>>     > >
>>     > > However, I'm a bit concerned with your suggestion regarding custom
>>     > dependency management. Can you please elaborate on how you think it
>> should
>>     > work? Are there tools we can reuse for this purpose? I would try to
>> avoid
>>     > reinventing the wheel.
>>     >
>>     > I see it as a a2enmod | 2dismod analog of Apache2.
>>     >
>>     > We build and store Apache Ignite and its modules as separate
>> binaries
>>     > (binary per module) then use custom script that will know where to
>> download
>>     > necessary module. Or possibly use modified ignite.sh to specify
>> required
>>     > optional libs in run command while ignite.sh will download
>> everything
>>     > missing from known storage.
>>     >
>>     > The whole idea is in storing everything remotely and download on
>> demand,
>>     > not have all libs locally from the start.
>>     >
>>     >
>>     > >
>>     > > -Val
>>     > >
>>     > > On Sun, Aug 9, 2020 at 11:25 PM Petr Ivanov <mr.weider@gmail.com
>>     > <mailto:mr.weider@gmail.com>> wrote:
>>     > > Hi, Val!
>>     > > Thanks for your efforts on this endeavour!
>>     > >
>>     > >
>>     > > I would like to suggest deliveries changes in Apache Ignite 3.0:
>>     > >  — modularised  binary delivery — single minimal binary for
>> starting
>>     > Ignite and all other modules and parts of the project (benchmarks,
>>     > examples, etc.) packed in their own binary which can be added via
>> custom
>>     > dependency management tool (i.e. modules.sh)
>>     > >  — same distribution for RPM and DEB packages but with modules
>> packed as
>>     > separate ones (PHP for example)
>>     > >  — separate thin client release cycle with custom versioning
>>     > > Possibly, we can we add additional section to the document you
>>     > introduced for this part.
>>     > >
>>     > > Also, it seems that full JDK11 support (including building) would
>> be a
>>     > huge milestone and a sign of healthy modern project that tends to
>> be on the
>>     > verge of mainstream technologies and not the stockpile of legacy
>> leftovers
>>     > (fully support Iliya in removing all that was deprecated and/or
>> marked as
>>     > unused anymore).
>>     > >
>>     > >
>>     > > > On 8 Aug 2020, at 02:00, Valentin Kulichenko <
>>     > valentin.kulichenko@gmail.com <mailto:valentin.kulichenko@gmail.com
>> >>
>>     > wrote:
>>     > > >
>>     > > > Igniters,
>>     > > >
>>     > > > I've created the page:
>>     > > >
>> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/IGNITE/Apache*Ignite*3.0__;Kys!!O3mv9RujDHg!2GlQzPzSAyxjW5tzyIzjaVVuR5_U_s65MCFLww8yIHRMzDqSrm5C2nkXYQErpm9uWJo_$
>> <
>>     >
>> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/IGNITE/Apache*Ignite*3.0__;Kys!!O3mv9RujDHg!2GlQzPzSAyxjW5tzyIzjaVVuR5_U_s65MCFLww8yIHRMzDqSrm5C2nkXYQErpm9uWJo_$
>> >
>>     > > >
>>     > > > That's not everything I have in mind, but I believe there is
>> already a
>>     > lot
>>     > > > to talk about :)
>>     > > >
>>     > > > Please take a look let me know if you have any concerns,
>> objections, or
>>     > > > questions. Once we reach the consensus on the proposed changes,
>> I will
>>     > > > start creating tickets in Jira and a more detailed plan.
>>     > > >
>>     > > > -Val
>>     > > >
>>     > > > On Thu, Aug 6, 2020 at 6:28 PM Saikat Maitra <
>> saikat.maitra@gmail.com
>>     > <mailto:saikat.maitra@gmail.com>>
>>     > > > wrote:
>>     > > >
>>     > > >> Hi Denis, Val
>>     > > >>
>>     > > >> Thank you for your reply and really appreciate it. It will
be
>> very
>>     > cool to
>>     > > >> be able to connect and plan release together and learn more
>> about
>>     > Ignite in
>>     > > >> the process :)
>>     > > >>
>>     > > >> Regards
>>     > > >> Saikat
>>     > > >>
>>     > > >>
>>     > > >>
>>     > > >> On Thu, Aug 6, 2020 at 7:12 PM Valentin Kulichenko <
>>     > > >> valentin.kulichenko@gmail.com <mailto:
>> valentin.kulichenko@gmail.com>>
>>     > wrote:
>>     > > >>
>>     > > >>> Hi Saikat,
>>     > > >>>
>>     > > >>> That surely is a great idea. We will work together with
Denis
>> on
>>     > setting
>>     > > >>> this up in the nearest future.
>>     > > >>>
>>     > > >>> -Val
>>     > > >>>
>>     > > >>> On Thu, Aug 6, 2020 at 10:21 AM Denis Magda <
>> dmagda@apache.org
>>     > <mailto:dmagda@apache.org>> wrote:
>>     > > >>>
>>     > > >>>> Saikat,
>>     > > >>>>
>>     > > >>>> Fully support your idea on a virtual meetup! Once
Val
>> collects and
>>     > > >>> outlines
>>     > > >>>> the main changes with directions on wiki, we’ll
go ahead and
>>     > schedule
>>     > > >> the
>>     > > >>>> meetup to talk things out in a bit more detail. We’ll
use
>> our new
>>     > > >> Virtual
>>     > > >>>> Ignite Meetup group for that inviting both Ignite
>> contributors and
>>     > > >>>> application developers.
>>     > > >>>>
>>     > > >>>> Denis
>>     > > >>>>
>>     > > >>>> On Thursday, August 6, 2020, Saikat Maitra <
>> saikat.maitra@gmail.com
>>     > <mailto:saikat.maitra@gmail.com>>
>>     > > >>>> wrote:
>>     > > >>>>
>>     > > >>>>> Hi Valentin
>>     > > >>>>>
>>     > > >>>>> Thank you for sharing and starting the thread.
I am
>> thinking if it
>>     > > >> will
>>     > > >>>> be
>>     > > >>>>> a good idea to have a virtual meet setup to discuss
on the
>> release
>>     > > >>>>> planning.
>>     > > >>>>>
>>     > > >>>>> It will help to learn more individual features
to be added
>> and also
>>     > > >> to
>>     > > >>>>> understand about features that have been deprecated
and
>> scheduled
>>     > for
>>     > > >>>>> removal in Ignite 3.0 release. Also it will help
community
>> member
>>     > to
>>     > > >>>>> connect in real time and ask questions and share
feedback.
>>     > > >>>>>
>>     > > >>>>> Regards,
>>     > > >>>>> Saikat
>>     > > >>>>>
>>     > > >>>>> On Thu, Aug 6, 2020 at 3:51 AM Ilya Kasnacheev
<
>>     > > >>>> ilya.kasnacheev@gmail.com <mailto:ilya.kasnacheev@gmail.com
>> >>
>>     > > >>>>> wrote:
>>     > > >>>>>
>>     > > >>>>>> Hello!
>>     > > >>>>>>
>>     > > >>>>>> I hope to see Apache Ignite release 3.0 as
API trimming
>> release.
>>     > > >> Let
>>     > > >>> us
>>     > > >>>>>> correct external and internal APIs for which
we have
>> better ideas
>>     > > >>> now,
>>     > > >>>> as
>>     > > >>>>>> well as remove old and deprecated code.
>>     > > >>>>>>
>>     > > >>>>>> We may also introduce new configuration mechanisms
and
>> user-facing
>>     > > >>> API
>>     > > >>>>>> (such as cache-less native SQL queries), but
this we could
>>     > > >> prototype
>>     > > >>>>> before
>>     > > >>>>>> starting the 3.0 task.
>>     > > >>>>>>
>>     > > >>>>>> I will advise against targeting large new
features at 3.0.
>> They
>>     > can
>>     > > >>> be
>>     > > >>>>>> added in subsequent point releases, whereas
we can't
>> really remove
>>     > > >> or
>>     > > >>>>>> remodel stuff in point releases.
>>     > > >>>>>>
>>     > > >>>>>> Regards,
>>     > > >>>>>> --
>>     > > >>>>>> Ilya Kasnacheev
>>     > > >>>>>>
>>     > > >>>>>>
>>     > > >>>>>> чт, 6 авг. 2020 г. в 03:54, Valentin
Kulichenko <
>>     > > >>>>>> valentin.kulichenko@gmail.com <mailto:
>>     > valentin.kulichenko@gmail.com>>:
>>     > > >>>>>>
>>     > > >>>>>>> Igniters,
>>     > > >>>>>>>
>>     > > >>>>>>> I would like to kick off a discussion
regarding Ignite
>> 3.0.
>>     > > >> Ignite
>>     > > >>>> 2.0
>>     > > >>>>>>> exists for more than 3 years now and we've
already
>> collected a
>>     > > >>>>>> significant
>>     > > >>>>>>> list [1] of changes that we would like
to have, but cannot
>>     > > >>> implement
>>     > > >>>>>>> without breaking compatibility.
>>     > > >>>>>>>
>>     > > >>>>>>> I think it's time to start planning for
the next major
>> release
>>     > > >> and
>>     > > >>>>>>> discussing what should be included. I've
already gathered
>> some
>>     > > >>>>>> information
>>     > > >>>>>>> and feedback, and have some thoughts on
how to approach
>> this. In
>>     > > >>> the
>>     > > >>>>> next
>>     > > >>>>>>> few days, I will put everything into a
Wiki page and will
>> share
>>     > > >> it
>>     > > >>>> once
>>     > > >>>>>>> this is done. Stay tuned!
>>     > > >>>>>>>
>>     > > >>>>>>> I'm willing to drive the 3.0 activities
going forward as
>> well.
>>     > > >>>>>>>
>>     > > >>>>>>> In the meantime, if there are any immediate
thoughts or
>> ideas,
>>     > > >>> please
>>     > > >>>>>> feel
>>     > > >>>>>>> free to join the thread and share them.
>>     > > >>>>>>>
>>     > > >>>>>>> [1]
>>     > > >>>>>>>
>>     > > >>>>>>>
>>     > > >>>>>>
>> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/IGNITE/__;!!O3mv9RujDHg!2GlQzPzSAyxjW5tzyIzjaVVuR5_U_s65MCFLww8yIHRMzDqSrm5C2nkXYQErpp6mV7IJ$
>> <
>>     >
>> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/IGNITE/__;!!O3mv9RujDHg!2GlQzPzSAyxjW5tzyIzjaVVuR5_U_s65MCFLww8yIHRMzDqSrm5C2nkXYQErpp6mV7IJ$
>> >
>>     > > >>>>> Apache+Ignite+3.0+Wishlist
>>     > > >>>>>>>
>>     > > >>>>>>> Regards,
>>     > > >>>>>>> Val
>>     > > >>>>>>>
>>     > > >>>>>>
>>     > > >>>>>
>>     > > >>>>
>>     > > >>>>
>>     > > >>>> --
>>     > > >>>> -
>>     > > >>>> Denis
>>     > > >>>>
>>     > > >>>
>>     > > >>
>>     > >
>>     >
>>     >
>>
>>
>>

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