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From Valentin Kulichenko <valentin.kuliche...@gmail.com>
Subject Re: Apache Ignite 3.0
Date Thu, 13 Aug 2020 23:55:13 GMT
Hi Ilya,

Can you please describe your vision of how it should work?

Let's say, I want to set up a cluster of several standalone server nodes
with a couple of optional modules enabled. What are my steps?

-Val

On Thu, Aug 13, 2020 at 6:03 AM Carbone, Adam <Adam.Carbone@bottomline.com>
wrote:

> Good Morning from the EastCoast
>
> I have to agree that the larger industry is tending towards immutability,
> and that you build once and test, then you promote/migrate that immutable
> binary object, be is a library or a docker image etc... however there are
> still patterns that allow you to determine at install/or deployment time (
> helm as an example, you choose based on your values what the package
> installs/provides ) It just isn't decided at runtime but install and often
> in a gitops type world that is determined by configuration as code. I think
> run time is difficult to manage especially in our increasingly
> containerized world.
>
> Regards.
>
> Adam Carbone | Director of Innovation – Intelligent Platform Team |
> Bottomline Technologies
> Office: 603-501-6446 | Mobile: 603-570-8418
> www.bottomline.com
>
>
>
> On 8/13/20, 8:01 AM, "Ilya Kasnacheev" <ilya.kasnacheev@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>     Hello!
>
>     On the contrary, I would suggest that apache2 way was outdated even at
>     times when apache was all rage.
>
>     Now the nginx approach is prevalent: on devops phase, assemble a custom
>     bundle with all plugins included, store it somewhere, and ship it to
>     production as a whole to remove any on-the-fly uncertainty from
> production.
>
>     This is what docker does, but also maven, which downloads dependencies
>     during build. You do not need to download anything in runtime, except
> for
>     experimental deployments. You need to be all set before runtime starts.
>
>     Regards,
>     --
>     Ilya Kasnacheev
>
>
>     ср, 12 авг. 2020 г. в 09:48, Petr Ivanov <mr.weider@gmail.com>:
>
>     > Hi, Val.
>     >
>     > > On 12 Aug 2020, at 01:31, Valentin Kulichenko <
>     > valentin.kulichenko@gmail.com> wrote:
>     > >
>     > > Hi Petr,
>     > >
>     > > I agree -- we should better modularize the platform. The current
> way if
>     > very error-prone, especially during upgrades -- any changes made
> within
>     > IGNITE_HOME (configs, scripts, modules, etc.) must be merged with a
> new
>     > version of the package. There is no standard way of doing this.
>     > >
>     > > However, I'm a bit concerned with your suggestion regarding custom
>     > dependency management. Can you please elaborate on how you think it
> should
>     > work? Are there tools we can reuse for this purpose? I would try to
> avoid
>     > reinventing the wheel.
>     >
>     > I see it as a a2enmod | 2dismod analog of Apache2.
>     >
>     > We build and store Apache Ignite and its modules as separate binaries
>     > (binary per module) then use custom script that will know where to
> download
>     > necessary module. Or possibly use modified ignite.sh to specify
> required
>     > optional libs in run command while ignite.sh will download everything
>     > missing from known storage.
>     >
>     > The whole idea is in storing everything remotely and download on
> demand,
>     > not have all libs locally from the start.
>     >
>     >
>     > >
>     > > -Val
>     > >
>     > > On Sun, Aug 9, 2020 at 11:25 PM Petr Ivanov <mr.weider@gmail.com
>     > <mailto:mr.weider@gmail.com>> wrote:
>     > > Hi, Val!
>     > > Thanks for your efforts on this endeavour!
>     > >
>     > >
>     > > I would like to suggest deliveries changes in Apache Ignite 3.0:
>     > >  — modularised  binary delivery — single minimal binary for
> starting
>     > Ignite and all other modules and parts of the project (benchmarks,
>     > examples, etc.) packed in their own binary which can be added via
> custom
>     > dependency management tool (i.e. modules.sh)
>     > >  — same distribution for RPM and DEB packages but with modules
> packed as
>     > separate ones (PHP for example)
>     > >  — separate thin client release cycle with custom versioning
>     > > Possibly, we can we add additional section to the document you
>     > introduced for this part.
>     > >
>     > > Also, it seems that full JDK11 support (including building) would
> be a
>     > huge milestone and a sign of healthy modern project that tends to be
> on the
>     > verge of mainstream technologies and not the stockpile of legacy
> leftovers
>     > (fully support Iliya in removing all that was deprecated and/or
> marked as
>     > unused anymore).
>     > >
>     > >
>     > > > On 8 Aug 2020, at 02:00, Valentin Kulichenko <
>     > valentin.kulichenko@gmail.com <mailto:valentin.kulichenko@gmail.com
> >>
>     > wrote:
>     > > >
>     > > > Igniters,
>     > > >
>     > > > I've created the page:
>     > > >
> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/IGNITE/Apache*Ignite*3.0__;Kys!!O3mv9RujDHg!2GlQzPzSAyxjW5tzyIzjaVVuR5_U_s65MCFLww8yIHRMzDqSrm5C2nkXYQErpm9uWJo_$
> <
>     >
> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/IGNITE/Apache*Ignite*3.0__;Kys!!O3mv9RujDHg!2GlQzPzSAyxjW5tzyIzjaVVuR5_U_s65MCFLww8yIHRMzDqSrm5C2nkXYQErpm9uWJo_$
> >
>     > > >
>     > > > That's not everything I have in mind, but I believe there is
> already a
>     > lot
>     > > > to talk about :)
>     > > >
>     > > > Please take a look let me know if you have any concerns,
> objections, or
>     > > > questions. Once we reach the consensus on the proposed changes,
> I will
>     > > > start creating tickets in Jira and a more detailed plan.
>     > > >
>     > > > -Val
>     > > >
>     > > > On Thu, Aug 6, 2020 at 6:28 PM Saikat Maitra <
> saikat.maitra@gmail.com
>     > <mailto:saikat.maitra@gmail.com>>
>     > > > wrote:
>     > > >
>     > > >> Hi Denis, Val
>     > > >>
>     > > >> Thank you for your reply and really appreciate it. It will be
> very
>     > cool to
>     > > >> be able to connect and plan release together and learn more
> about
>     > Ignite in
>     > > >> the process :)
>     > > >>
>     > > >> Regards
>     > > >> Saikat
>     > > >>
>     > > >>
>     > > >>
>     > > >> On Thu, Aug 6, 2020 at 7:12 PM Valentin Kulichenko <
>     > > >> valentin.kulichenko@gmail.com <mailto:
> valentin.kulichenko@gmail.com>>
>     > wrote:
>     > > >>
>     > > >>> Hi Saikat,
>     > > >>>
>     > > >>> That surely is a great idea. We will work together with Denis
> on
>     > setting
>     > > >>> this up in the nearest future.
>     > > >>>
>     > > >>> -Val
>     > > >>>
>     > > >>> On Thu, Aug 6, 2020 at 10:21 AM Denis Magda <dmagda@apache.org
>     > <mailto:dmagda@apache.org>> wrote:
>     > > >>>
>     > > >>>> Saikat,
>     > > >>>>
>     > > >>>> Fully support your idea on a virtual meetup! Once Val
> collects and
>     > > >>> outlines
>     > > >>>> the main changes with directions on wiki, we’ll go ahead
and
>     > schedule
>     > > >> the
>     > > >>>> meetup to talk things out in a bit more detail. We’ll
use our
> new
>     > > >> Virtual
>     > > >>>> Ignite Meetup group for that inviting both Ignite
> contributors and
>     > > >>>> application developers.
>     > > >>>>
>     > > >>>> Denis
>     > > >>>>
>     > > >>>> On Thursday, August 6, 2020, Saikat Maitra <
> saikat.maitra@gmail.com
>     > <mailto:saikat.maitra@gmail.com>>
>     > > >>>> wrote:
>     > > >>>>
>     > > >>>>> Hi Valentin
>     > > >>>>>
>     > > >>>>> Thank you for sharing and starting the thread. I am
thinking
> if it
>     > > >> will
>     > > >>>> be
>     > > >>>>> a good idea to have a virtual meet setup to discuss
on the
> release
>     > > >>>>> planning.
>     > > >>>>>
>     > > >>>>> It will help to learn more individual features to
be added
> and also
>     > > >> to
>     > > >>>>> understand about features that have been deprecated
and
> scheduled
>     > for
>     > > >>>>> removal in Ignite 3.0 release. Also it will help community
> member
>     > to
>     > > >>>>> connect in real time and ask questions and share feedback.
>     > > >>>>>
>     > > >>>>> Regards,
>     > > >>>>> Saikat
>     > > >>>>>
>     > > >>>>> On Thu, Aug 6, 2020 at 3:51 AM Ilya Kasnacheev <
>     > > >>>> ilya.kasnacheev@gmail.com <mailto:ilya.kasnacheev@gmail.com>>
>     > > >>>>> wrote:
>     > > >>>>>
>     > > >>>>>> Hello!
>     > > >>>>>>
>     > > >>>>>> I hope to see Apache Ignite release 3.0 as API
trimming
> release.
>     > > >> Let
>     > > >>> us
>     > > >>>>>> correct external and internal APIs for which we
have better
> ideas
>     > > >>> now,
>     > > >>>> as
>     > > >>>>>> well as remove old and deprecated code.
>     > > >>>>>>
>     > > >>>>>> We may also introduce new configuration mechanisms
and
> user-facing
>     > > >>> API
>     > > >>>>>> (such as cache-less native SQL queries), but this
we could
>     > > >> prototype
>     > > >>>>> before
>     > > >>>>>> starting the 3.0 task.
>     > > >>>>>>
>     > > >>>>>> I will advise against targeting large new features
at 3.0.
> They
>     > can
>     > > >>> be
>     > > >>>>>> added in subsequent point releases, whereas we
can't really
> remove
>     > > >> or
>     > > >>>>>> remodel stuff in point releases.
>     > > >>>>>>
>     > > >>>>>> Regards,
>     > > >>>>>> --
>     > > >>>>>> Ilya Kasnacheev
>     > > >>>>>>
>     > > >>>>>>
>     > > >>>>>> чт, 6 авг. 2020 г. в 03:54, Valentin Kulichenko
<
>     > > >>>>>> valentin.kulichenko@gmail.com <mailto:
>     > valentin.kulichenko@gmail.com>>:
>     > > >>>>>>
>     > > >>>>>>> Igniters,
>     > > >>>>>>>
>     > > >>>>>>> I would like to kick off a discussion regarding
Ignite 3.0.
>     > > >> Ignite
>     > > >>>> 2.0
>     > > >>>>>>> exists for more than 3 years now and we've
already
> collected a
>     > > >>>>>> significant
>     > > >>>>>>> list [1] of changes that we would like to
have, but cannot
>     > > >>> implement
>     > > >>>>>>> without breaking compatibility.
>     > > >>>>>>>
>     > > >>>>>>> I think it's time to start planning for the
next major
> release
>     > > >> and
>     > > >>>>>>> discussing what should be included. I've already
gathered
> some
>     > > >>>>>> information
>     > > >>>>>>> and feedback, and have some thoughts on how
to approach
> this. In
>     > > >>> the
>     > > >>>>> next
>     > > >>>>>>> few days, I will put everything into a Wiki
page and will
> share
>     > > >> it
>     > > >>>> once
>     > > >>>>>>> this is done. Stay tuned!
>     > > >>>>>>>
>     > > >>>>>>> I'm willing to drive the 3.0 activities going
forward as
> well.
>     > > >>>>>>>
>     > > >>>>>>> In the meantime, if there are any immediate
thoughts or
> ideas,
>     > > >>> please
>     > > >>>>>> feel
>     > > >>>>>>> free to join the thread and share them.
>     > > >>>>>>>
>     > > >>>>>>> [1]
>     > > >>>>>>>
>     > > >>>>>>>
>     > > >>>>>>
> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/IGNITE/__;!!O3mv9RujDHg!2GlQzPzSAyxjW5tzyIzjaVVuR5_U_s65MCFLww8yIHRMzDqSrm5C2nkXYQErpp6mV7IJ$
> <
>     >
> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/IGNITE/__;!!O3mv9RujDHg!2GlQzPzSAyxjW5tzyIzjaVVuR5_U_s65MCFLww8yIHRMzDqSrm5C2nkXYQErpp6mV7IJ$
> >
>     > > >>>>> Apache+Ignite+3.0+Wishlist
>     > > >>>>>>>
>     > > >>>>>>> Regards,
>     > > >>>>>>> Val
>     > > >>>>>>>
>     > > >>>>>>
>     > > >>>>>
>     > > >>>>
>     > > >>>>
>     > > >>>> --
>     > > >>>> -
>     > > >>>> Denis
>     > > >>>>
>     > > >>>
>     > > >>
>     > >
>     >
>     >
>
>
>

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