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From Valentin Kulichenko <valentin.kuliche...@gmail.com>
Subject Re: Apache Ignite 3.0
Date Mon, 17 Aug 2020 22:11:28 GMT
Hi Pavel,

Is see the ".NET Modernization for Ignite 3.0" item in the roadmap, but it
doesn't provide much detail. What are the actual changes in .NET that you
propose for 3.0?

As for the messaging, so far I haven't seen use cases that would require
this API. Sometimes users attempt to use it for remote code invocation, but
compute is usually a better option for this. Do you have any examples where
messaging is a better fit then compute?

-Val

On Sun, Aug 16, 2020 at 9:04 AM Pavel Tupitsyn <ptupitsyn@apache.org> wrote:

> Saikat, yes, most definitely.
> This is mentioned in the wishlist under ".NET: Target .NET Standard 2.0,
> discontinue .NET 4.0 support".
> I'm already working towards this goal by making more code and tests work
> properly under .NET Core,
> so when the time for breaking changes comes, it will be simpler.
>
> On Sat, Aug 15, 2020 at 10:06 PM Saikat Maitra <saikat.maitra@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> > Hi Val,
> >
> > Thank you for adding the Cleanup section and Removals list.
> >
> > Pavel, As part of Apache Ignite Roadmap we had mentioned we will add
> > modernization of .NET. Are we still targeting it in Apache Ignite 3.0
> > release?
> >
> > https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/IGNITE/Apache+Ignite+Roadmap
> >
> > Regards,
> > Saikat
> >
> >
> >
> > On Fri, Aug 14, 2020 at 10:04 AM Carbone, Adam <
> > Adam.Carbone@bottomline.com>
> > wrote:
> >
> > > If you want to make is simpler to have the components that you want,
> but
> > > have that be immutable at install time you could take an approach
> similar
> > > to the way spring does it with their initializer (
> > > https://start.spring.io/ )  as an example... Basically the concept
> being
> > > something that produces a set of configurations that are used to define
> > > what the environment looks like ( these could be k8s objects ) they
> could
> > > be spring-configuration objects? They could be something that you
> develop
> > > all upon ignite ( probably wouldn’t recommend this approach )  there
> > seems
> > > to be plenty of these types of things already
> > >
> > > Example
> > > * https://spring.io/guides/gs/centralized-configuration
> > > *
> > >
> >
> https://cocoon.apache.org/subprojects/configuration/spring-configurator/index.html
> > >
> > > And I'm by no means saying to use spring these are just examples that I
> > > came across
> > >
> > > I'm thinking the outcome needs to be a platform config of source ( that
> > > can be checked in for those doing gitops ) and maybe ends up as a
> config
> > > map for those doing k8s, and some other fashion for those doing
> something
> > > else.
> > >
> > > Honestly I am not deep enough into the internals of ignite to know how
> > > this might work for the platform, was more describing what I'm seeing
> > from
> > > a bigger picture trend
> > >
> > > Regards
> > >
> > > Adam Carbone | Director of Innovation – Intelligent Platform Team |
> > > Bottomline Technologies
> > > Office: 603-501-6446 | Mobile: 603-570-8418
> > > www.bottomline.com
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > On 8/13/20, 7:55 PM, "Valentin Kulichenko" <
> > valentin.kulichenko@gmail.com>
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > >     Hi Ilya,
> > >
> > >     Can you please describe your vision of how it should work?
> > >
> > >     Let's say, I want to set up a cluster of several standalone server
> > > nodes
> > >     with a couple of optional modules enabled. What are my steps?
> > >
> > >     -Val
> > >
> > >     On Thu, Aug 13, 2020 at 6:03 AM Carbone, Adam <
> > > Adam.Carbone@bottomline.com>
> > >     wrote:
> > >
> > >     > Good Morning from the EastCoast
> > >     >
> > >     > I have to agree that the larger industry is tending towards
> > > immutability,
> > >     > and that you build once and test, then you promote/migrate that
> > > immutable
> > >     > binary object, be is a library or a docker image etc... however
> > > there are
> > >     > still patterns that allow you to determine at install/or
> deployment
> > > time (
> > >     > helm as an example, you choose based on your values what the
> > package
> > >     > installs/provides ) It just isn't decided at runtime but install
> > and
> > > often
> > >     > in a gitops type world that is determined by configuration as
> code.
> > > I think
> > >     > run time is difficult to manage especially in our increasingly
> > >     > containerized world.
> > >     >
> > >     > Regards.
> > >     >
> > >     > Adam Carbone | Director of Innovation – Intelligent Platform
> Team |
> > >     > Bottomline Technologies
> > >     > Office: 603-501-6446 | Mobile: 603-570-8418
> > >     > www.bottomline.com
> > >     >
> > >     >
> > >     >
> > >     > On 8/13/20, 8:01 AM, "Ilya Kasnacheev" <
> ilya.kasnacheev@gmail.com>
> > > wrote:
> > >     >
> > >     >     Hello!
> > >     >
> > >     >     On the contrary, I would suggest that apache2 way was
> outdated
> > > even at
> > >     >     times when apache was all rage.
> > >     >
> > >     >     Now the nginx approach is prevalent: on devops phase,
> assemble
> > a
> > > custom
> > >     >     bundle with all plugins included, store it somewhere, and
> ship
> > > it to
> > >     >     production as a whole to remove any on-the-fly uncertainty
> from
> > >     > production.
> > >     >
> > >     >     This is what docker does, but also maven, which downloads
> > > dependencies
> > >     >     during build. You do not need to download anything in
> runtime,
> > > except
> > >     > for
> > >     >     experimental deployments. You need to be all set before
> runtime
> > > starts.
> > >     >
> > >     >     Regards,
> > >     >     --
> > >     >     Ilya Kasnacheev
> > >     >
> > >     >
> > >     >     ср, 12 авг. 2020 г. в 09:48, Petr Ivanov <
> mr.weider@gmail.com
> > >:
> > >     >
> > >     >     > Hi, Val.
> > >     >     >
> > >     >     > > On 12 Aug 2020, at 01:31, Valentin Kulichenko <
> > >     >     > valentin.kulichenko@gmail.com> wrote:
> > >     >     > >
> > >     >     > > Hi Petr,
> > >     >     > >
> > >     >     > > I agree -- we should better modularize the platform.
The
> > > current
> > >     > way if
> > >     >     > very error-prone, especially during upgrades -- any changes
> > > made
> > >     > within
> > >     >     > IGNITE_HOME (configs, scripts, modules, etc.) must be
> merged
> > > with a
> > >     > new
> > >     >     > version of the package. There is no standard way of doing
> > this.
> > >     >     > >
> > >     >     > > However, I'm a bit concerned with your suggestion
> regarding
> > > custom
> > >     >     > dependency management. Can you please elaborate on how you
> > > think it
> > >     > should
> > >     >     > work? Are there tools we can reuse for this purpose? I
> would
> > > try to
> > >     > avoid
> > >     >     > reinventing the wheel.
> > >     >     >
> > >     >     > I see it as a a2enmod | 2dismod analog of Apache2.
> > >     >     >
> > >     >     > We build and store Apache Ignite and its modules as
> separate
> > > binaries
> > >     >     > (binary per module) then use custom script that will know
> > > where to
> > >     > download
> > >     >     > necessary module. Or possibly use modified ignite.sh to
> > specify
> > >     > required
> > >     >     > optional libs in run command while ignite.sh will download
> > > everything
> > >     >     > missing from known storage.
> > >     >     >
> > >     >     > The whole idea is in storing everything remotely and
> download
> > > on
> > >     > demand,
> > >     >     > not have all libs locally from the start.
> > >     >     >
> > >     >     >
> > >     >     > >
> > >     >     > > -Val
> > >     >     > >
> > >     >     > > On Sun, Aug 9, 2020 at 11:25 PM Petr Ivanov <
> > > mr.weider@gmail.com
> > >     >     > <mailto:mr.weider@gmail.com>> wrote:
> > >     >     > > Hi, Val!
> > >     >     > > Thanks for your efforts on this endeavour!
> > >     >     > >
> > >     >     > >
> > >     >     > > I would like to suggest deliveries changes in Apache
> Ignite
> > > 3.0:
> > >     >     > >  — modularised  binary delivery — single minimal
binary
> for
> > >     > starting
> > >     >     > Ignite and all other modules and parts of the project
> > > (benchmarks,
> > >     >     > examples, etc.) packed in their own binary which can be
> added
> > > via
> > >     > custom
> > >     >     > dependency management tool (i.e. modules.sh)
> > >     >     > >  — same distribution for RPM and DEB packages but
with
> > > modules
> > >     > packed as
> > >     >     > separate ones (PHP for example)
> > >     >     > >  — separate thin client release cycle with custom
> > versioning
> > >     >     > > Possibly, we can we add additional section to the
> document
> > > you
> > >     >     > introduced for this part.
> > >     >     > >
> > >     >     > > Also, it seems that full JDK11 support (including
> building)
> > > would
> > >     > be a
> > >     >     > huge milestone and a sign of healthy modern project that
> > tends
> > > to be
> > >     > on the
> > >     >     > verge of mainstream technologies and not the stockpile of
> > > legacy
> > >     > leftovers
> > >     >     > (fully support Iliya in removing all that was deprecated
> > and/or
> > >     > marked as
> > >     >     > unused anymore).
> > >     >     > >
> > >     >     > >
> > >     >     > > > On 8 Aug 2020, at 02:00, Valentin Kulichenko <
> > >     >     > valentin.kulichenko@gmail.com <mailto:
> > > valentin.kulichenko@gmail.com
> > >     > >>
> > >     >     > wrote:
> > >     >     > > >
> > >     >     > > > Igniters,
> > >     >     > > >
> > >     >     > > > I've created the page:
> > >     >     > > >
> > >     >
> > >
> >
> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/IGNITE/Apache*Ignite*3.0__;Kys!!O3mv9RujDHg!2GlQzPzSAyxjW5tzyIzjaVVuR5_U_s65MCFLww8yIHRMzDqSrm5C2nkXYQErpm9uWJo_$
> > >     > <
> > >     >     >
> > >     >
> > >
> >
> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/IGNITE/Apache*Ignite*3.0__;Kys!!O3mv9RujDHg!2GlQzPzSAyxjW5tzyIzjaVVuR5_U_s65MCFLww8yIHRMzDqSrm5C2nkXYQErpm9uWJo_$
> > >     > >
> > >     >     > > >
> > >     >     > > > That's not everything I have in mind, but I believe
> there
> > > is
> > >     > already a
> > >     >     > lot
> > >     >     > > > to talk about :)
> > >     >     > > >
> > >     >     > > > Please take a look let me know if you have any
> concerns,
> > >     > objections, or
> > >     >     > > > questions. Once we reach the consensus on the proposed
> > > changes,
> > >     > I will
> > >     >     > > > start creating tickets in Jira and a more detailed
> plan.
> > >     >     > > >
> > >     >     > > > -Val
> > >     >     > > >
> > >     >     > > > On Thu, Aug 6, 2020 at 6:28 PM Saikat Maitra <
> > >     > saikat.maitra@gmail.com
> > >     >     > <mailto:saikat.maitra@gmail.com>>
> > >     >     > > > wrote:
> > >     >     > > >
> > >     >     > > >> Hi Denis, Val
> > >     >     > > >>
> > >     >     > > >> Thank you for your reply and really appreciate
it. It
> > > will be
> > >     > very
> > >     >     > cool to
> > >     >     > > >> be able to connect and plan release together
and learn
> > > more
> > >     > about
> > >     >     > Ignite in
> > >     >     > > >> the process :)
> > >     >     > > >>
> > >     >     > > >> Regards
> > >     >     > > >> Saikat
> > >     >     > > >>
> > >     >     > > >>
> > >     >     > > >>
> > >     >     > > >> On Thu, Aug 6, 2020 at 7:12 PM Valentin Kulichenko
<
> > >     >     > > >> valentin.kulichenko@gmail.com <mailto:
> > >     > valentin.kulichenko@gmail.com>>
> > >     >     > wrote:
> > >     >     > > >>
> > >     >     > > >>> Hi Saikat,
> > >     >     > > >>>
> > >     >     > > >>> That surely is a great idea. We will work
together
> with
> > > Denis
> > >     > on
> > >     >     > setting
> > >     >     > > >>> this up in the nearest future.
> > >     >     > > >>>
> > >     >     > > >>> -Val
> > >     >     > > >>>
> > >     >     > > >>> On Thu, Aug 6, 2020 at 10:21 AM Denis Magda
<
> > > dmagda@apache.org
> > >     >     > <mailto:dmagda@apache.org>> wrote:
> > >     >     > > >>>
> > >     >     > > >>>> Saikat,
> > >     >     > > >>>>
> > >     >     > > >>>> Fully support your idea on a virtual
meetup! Once
> Val
> > >     > collects and
> > >     >     > > >>> outlines
> > >     >     > > >>>> the main changes with directions on
wiki, we’ll go
> > > ahead and
> > >     >     > schedule
> > >     >     > > >> the
> > >     >     > > >>>> meetup to talk things out in a bit
more detail.
> We’ll
> > > use our
> > >     > new
> > >     >     > > >> Virtual
> > >     >     > > >>>> Ignite Meetup group for that inviting
both Ignite
> > >     > contributors and
> > >     >     > > >>>> application developers.
> > >     >     > > >>>>
> > >     >     > > >>>> Denis
> > >     >     > > >>>>
> > >     >     > > >>>> On Thursday, August 6, 2020, Saikat
Maitra <
> > >     > saikat.maitra@gmail.com
> > >     >     > <mailto:saikat.maitra@gmail.com>>
> > >     >     > > >>>> wrote:
> > >     >     > > >>>>
> > >     >     > > >>>>> Hi Valentin
> > >     >     > > >>>>>
> > >     >     > > >>>>> Thank you for sharing and starting
the thread. I am
> > > thinking
> > >     > if it
> > >     >     > > >> will
> > >     >     > > >>>> be
> > >     >     > > >>>>> a good idea to have a virtual meet
setup to discuss
> > on
> > > the
> > >     > release
> > >     >     > > >>>>> planning.
> > >     >     > > >>>>>
> > >     >     > > >>>>> It will help to learn more individual
features to
> be
> > > added
> > >     > and also
> > >     >     > > >> to
> > >     >     > > >>>>> understand about features that
have been deprecated
> > and
> > >     > scheduled
> > >     >     > for
> > >     >     > > >>>>> removal in Ignite 3.0 release.
Also it will help
> > > community
> > >     > member
> > >     >     > to
> > >     >     > > >>>>> connect in real time and ask questions
and share
> > > feedback.
> > >     >     > > >>>>>
> > >     >     > > >>>>> Regards,
> > >     >     > > >>>>> Saikat
> > >     >     > > >>>>>
> > >     >     > > >>>>> On Thu, Aug 6, 2020 at 3:51 AM
Ilya Kasnacheev <
> > >     >     > > >>>> ilya.kasnacheev@gmail.com <mailto:
> > > ilya.kasnacheev@gmail.com>>
> > >     >     > > >>>>> wrote:
> > >     >     > > >>>>>
> > >     >     > > >>>>>> Hello!
> > >     >     > > >>>>>>
> > >     >     > > >>>>>> I hope to see Apache Ignite
release 3.0 as API
> > > trimming
> > >     > release.
> > >     >     > > >> Let
> > >     >     > > >>> us
> > >     >     > > >>>>>> correct external and internal
APIs for which we
> have
> > > better
> > >     > ideas
> > >     >     > > >>> now,
> > >     >     > > >>>> as
> > >     >     > > >>>>>> well as remove old and deprecated
code.
> > >     >     > > >>>>>>
> > >     >     > > >>>>>> We may also introduce new configuration
mechanisms
> > and
> > >     > user-facing
> > >     >     > > >>> API
> > >     >     > > >>>>>> (such as cache-less native
SQL queries), but this
> we
> > > could
> > >     >     > > >> prototype
> > >     >     > > >>>>> before
> > >     >     > > >>>>>> starting the 3.0 task.
> > >     >     > > >>>>>>
> > >     >     > > >>>>>> I will advise against targeting
large new features
> > at
> > > 3.0.
> > >     > They
> > >     >     > can
> > >     >     > > >>> be
> > >     >     > > >>>>>> added in subsequent point releases,
whereas we
> can't
> > > really
> > >     > remove
> > >     >     > > >> or
> > >     >     > > >>>>>> remodel stuff in point releases.
> > >     >     > > >>>>>>
> > >     >     > > >>>>>> Regards,
> > >     >     > > >>>>>> --
> > >     >     > > >>>>>> Ilya Kasnacheev
> > >     >     > > >>>>>>
> > >     >     > > >>>>>>
> > >     >     > > >>>>>> чт, 6 авг. 2020 г. в
03:54, Valentin Kulichenko <
> > >     >     > > >>>>>> valentin.kulichenko@gmail.com
<mailto:
> > >     >     > valentin.kulichenko@gmail.com>>:
> > >     >     > > >>>>>>
> > >     >     > > >>>>>>> Igniters,
> > >     >     > > >>>>>>>
> > >     >     > > >>>>>>> I would like to kick off
a discussion regarding
> > > Ignite 3.0.
> > >     >     > > >> Ignite
> > >     >     > > >>>> 2.0
> > >     >     > > >>>>>>> exists for more than 3
years now and we've
> already
> > >     > collected a
> > >     >     > > >>>>>> significant
> > >     >     > > >>>>>>> list [1] of changes that
we would like to have,
> but
> > > cannot
> > >     >     > > >>> implement
> > >     >     > > >>>>>>> without breaking compatibility.
> > >     >     > > >>>>>>>
> > >     >     > > >>>>>>> I think it's time to start
planning for the next
> > > major
> > >     > release
> > >     >     > > >> and
> > >     >     > > >>>>>>> discussing what should
be included. I've already
> > > gathered
> > >     > some
> > >     >     > > >>>>>> information
> > >     >     > > >>>>>>> and feedback, and have
some thoughts on how to
> > > approach
> > >     > this. In
> > >     >     > > >>> the
> > >     >     > > >>>>> next
> > >     >     > > >>>>>>> few days, I will put everything
into a Wiki page
> > and
> > > will
> > >     > share
> > >     >     > > >> it
> > >     >     > > >>>> once
> > >     >     > > >>>>>>> this is done. Stay tuned!
> > >     >     > > >>>>>>>
> > >     >     > > >>>>>>> I'm willing to drive the
3.0 activities going
> > > forward as
> > >     > well.
> > >     >     > > >>>>>>>
> > >     >     > > >>>>>>> In the meantime, if there
are any immediate
> > thoughts
> > > or
> > >     > ideas,
> > >     >     > > >>> please
> > >     >     > > >>>>>> feel
> > >     >     > > >>>>>>> free to join the thread
and share them.
> > >     >     > > >>>>>>>
> > >     >     > > >>>>>>> [1]
> > >     >     > > >>>>>>>
> > >     >     > > >>>>>>>
> > >     >     > > >>>>>>
> > >     >
> > >
> >
> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/IGNITE/__;!!O3mv9RujDHg!2GlQzPzSAyxjW5tzyIzjaVVuR5_U_s65MCFLww8yIHRMzDqSrm5C2nkXYQErpp6mV7IJ$
> > >     > <
> > >     >     >
> > >     >
> > >
> >
> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/IGNITE/__;!!O3mv9RujDHg!2GlQzPzSAyxjW5tzyIzjaVVuR5_U_s65MCFLww8yIHRMzDqSrm5C2nkXYQErpp6mV7IJ$
> > >     > >
> > >     >     > > >>>>> Apache+Ignite+3.0+Wishlist
> > >     >     > > >>>>>>>
> > >     >     > > >>>>>>> Regards,
> > >     >     > > >>>>>>> Val
> > >     >     > > >>>>>>>
> > >     >     > > >>>>>>
> > >     >     > > >>>>>
> > >     >     > > >>>>
> > >     >     > > >>>>
> > >     >     > > >>>> --
> > >     >     > > >>>> -
> > >     >     > > >>>> Denis
> > >     >     > > >>>>
> > >     >     > > >>>
> > >     >     > > >>
> > >     >     > >
> > >     >     >
> > >     >     >
> > >     >
> > >     >
> > >     >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
>

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