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From Pavel Tupitsyn <ptupit...@apache.org>
Subject Re: Apache Ignite 3.0
Date Tue, 18 Aug 2020 08:59:38 GMT
Val,

> Is see the ".NET Modernization for Ignite 3.0" item in the roadmap, but it
> doesn't provide much detail. What are the actual changes in .NET that you
> propose for 3.0?

I've updated the roadmap with a brief description.
We want to move away from an old, long unsupported .NET version,
and remove integrations with legacy technologies (old ASP.NET and EF).

> As for the messaging, so far I haven't seen use cases that would require
> this API. Sometimes users attempt to use it for remote code invocation,
but
> compute is usually a better option for this. Do you have any examples
where
> messaging is a better fit then compute?

I guess you are right, Compute can replace Messaging in most scenarios.

Messaging can be more convenient, since it is pub-sub - subscriber controls
whether it receives messages on the given topic. But this can be achieved
with a little more work with Compute as well.

Thanks,
Pavel



On Tue, Aug 18, 2020 at 3:16 AM Saikat Maitra <saikat.maitra@gmail.com>
wrote:

> Hi Pavel,
>
> Awesome, thank you.
>
> Yes, I remember having .Net modernization as part of Apache Ignite 3.0
> roadmap.
>
> Regards,
> Saikat
>
> On Sun, Aug 16, 2020 at 11:04 AM Pavel Tupitsyn <ptupitsyn@apache.org>
> wrote:
>
> > Saikat, yes, most definitely.
> > This is mentioned in the wishlist under ".NET: Target .NET Standard 2.0,
> > discontinue .NET 4.0 support".
> > I'm already working towards this goal by making more code and tests work
> > properly under .NET Core,
> > so when the time for breaking changes comes, it will be simpler.
> >
> > On Sat, Aug 15, 2020 at 10:06 PM Saikat Maitra <saikat.maitra@gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> >
> > > Hi Val,
> > >
> > > Thank you for adding the Cleanup section and Removals list.
> > >
> > > Pavel, As part of Apache Ignite Roadmap we had mentioned we will add
> > > modernization of .NET. Are we still targeting it in Apache Ignite 3.0
> > > release?
> > >
> > >
> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/IGNITE/Apache+Ignite+Roadmap
> > >
> > > Regards,
> > > Saikat
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > On Fri, Aug 14, 2020 at 10:04 AM Carbone, Adam <
> > > Adam.Carbone@bottomline.com>
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > > > If you want to make is simpler to have the components that you want,
> > but
> > > > have that be immutable at install time you could take an approach
> > similar
> > > > to the way spring does it with their initializer (
> > > > https://start.spring.io/ )  as an example... Basically the concept
> > being
> > > > something that produces a set of configurations that are used to
> define
> > > > what the environment looks like ( these could be k8s objects ) they
> > could
> > > > be spring-configuration objects? They could be something that you
> > develop
> > > > all upon ignite ( probably wouldn’t recommend this approach )  there
> > > seems
> > > > to be plenty of these types of things already
> > > >
> > > > Example
> > > > * https://spring.io/guides/gs/centralized-configuration
> > > > *
> > > >
> > >
> >
> https://cocoon.apache.org/subprojects/configuration/spring-configurator/index.html
> > > >
> > > > And I'm by no means saying to use spring these are just examples
> that I
> > > > came across
> > > >
> > > > I'm thinking the outcome needs to be a platform config of source (
> that
> > > > can be checked in for those doing gitops ) and maybe ends up as a
> > config
> > > > map for those doing k8s, and some other fashion for those doing
> > something
> > > > else.
> > > >
> > > > Honestly I am not deep enough into the internals of ignite to know
> how
> > > > this might work for the platform, was more describing what I'm seeing
> > > from
> > > > a bigger picture trend
> > > >
> > > > Regards
> > > >
> > > > Adam Carbone | Director of Innovation – Intelligent Platform Team |
> > > > Bottomline Technologies
> > > > Office: 603-501-6446 | Mobile: 603-570-8418
> > > > www.bottomline.com
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On 8/13/20, 7:55 PM, "Valentin Kulichenko" <
> > > valentin.kulichenko@gmail.com>
> > > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > >     Hi Ilya,
> > > >
> > > >     Can you please describe your vision of how it should work?
> > > >
> > > >     Let's say, I want to set up a cluster of several standalone
> server
> > > > nodes
> > > >     with a couple of optional modules enabled. What are my steps?
> > > >
> > > >     -Val
> > > >
> > > >     On Thu, Aug 13, 2020 at 6:03 AM Carbone, Adam <
> > > > Adam.Carbone@bottomline.com>
> > > >     wrote:
> > > >
> > > >     > Good Morning from the EastCoast
> > > >     >
> > > >     > I have to agree that the larger industry is tending towards
> > > > immutability,
> > > >     > and that you build once and test, then you promote/migrate that
> > > > immutable
> > > >     > binary object, be is a library or a docker image etc... however
> > > > there are
> > > >     > still patterns that allow you to determine at install/or
> > deployment
> > > > time (
> > > >     > helm as an example, you choose based on your values what the
> > > package
> > > >     > installs/provides ) It just isn't decided at runtime but
> install
> > > and
> > > > often
> > > >     > in a gitops type world that is determined by configuration as
> > code.
> > > > I think
> > > >     > run time is difficult to manage especially in our increasingly
> > > >     > containerized world.
> > > >     >
> > > >     > Regards.
> > > >     >
> > > >     > Adam Carbone | Director of Innovation – Intelligent Platform
> > Team |
> > > >     > Bottomline Technologies
> > > >     > Office: 603-501-6446 | Mobile: 603-570-8418
> > > >     > www.bottomline.com
> > > >     >
> > > >     >
> > > >     >
> > > >     > On 8/13/20, 8:01 AM, "Ilya Kasnacheev" <
> > ilya.kasnacheev@gmail.com>
> > > > wrote:
> > > >     >
> > > >     >     Hello!
> > > >     >
> > > >     >     On the contrary, I would suggest that apache2 way was
> > outdated
> > > > even at
> > > >     >     times when apache was all rage.
> > > >     >
> > > >     >     Now the nginx approach is prevalent: on devops phase,
> > assemble
> > > a
> > > > custom
> > > >     >     bundle with all plugins included, store it somewhere, and
> > ship
> > > > it to
> > > >     >     production as a whole to remove any on-the-fly uncertainty
> > from
> > > >     > production.
> > > >     >
> > > >     >     This is what docker does, but also maven, which downloads
> > > > dependencies
> > > >     >     during build. You do not need to download anything in
> > runtime,
> > > > except
> > > >     > for
> > > >     >     experimental deployments. You need to be all set before
> > runtime
> > > > starts.
> > > >     >
> > > >     >     Regards,
> > > >     >     --
> > > >     >     Ilya Kasnacheev
> > > >     >
> > > >     >
> > > >     >     ср, 12 авг. 2020 г. в 09:48, Petr Ivanov <
> > mr.weider@gmail.com
> > > >:
> > > >     >
> > > >     >     > Hi, Val.
> > > >     >     >
> > > >     >     > > On 12 Aug 2020, at 01:31, Valentin Kulichenko <
> > > >     >     > valentin.kulichenko@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > >     >     > >
> > > >     >     > > Hi Petr,
> > > >     >     > >
> > > >     >     > > I agree -- we should better modularize the platform.
> The
> > > > current
> > > >     > way if
> > > >     >     > very error-prone, especially during upgrades -- any
> changes
> > > > made
> > > >     > within
> > > >     >     > IGNITE_HOME (configs, scripts, modules, etc.) must be
> > merged
> > > > with a
> > > >     > new
> > > >     >     > version of the package. There is no standard way of
doing
> > > this.
> > > >     >     > >
> > > >     >     > > However, I'm a bit concerned with your suggestion
> > regarding
> > > > custom
> > > >     >     > dependency management. Can you please elaborate on how
> you
> > > > think it
> > > >     > should
> > > >     >     > work? Are there tools we can reuse for this purpose?
I
> > would
> > > > try to
> > > >     > avoid
> > > >     >     > reinventing the wheel.
> > > >     >     >
> > > >     >     > I see it as a a2enmod | 2dismod analog of Apache2.
> > > >     >     >
> > > >     >     > We build and store Apache Ignite and its modules as
> > separate
> > > > binaries
> > > >     >     > (binary per module) then use custom script that will
know
> > > > where to
> > > >     > download
> > > >     >     > necessary module. Or possibly use modified ignite.sh
to
> > > specify
> > > >     > required
> > > >     >     > optional libs in run command while ignite.sh will
> download
> > > > everything
> > > >     >     > missing from known storage.
> > > >     >     >
> > > >     >     > The whole idea is in storing everything remotely and
> > download
> > > > on
> > > >     > demand,
> > > >     >     > not have all libs locally from the start.
> > > >     >     >
> > > >     >     >
> > > >     >     > >
> > > >     >     > > -Val
> > > >     >     > >
> > > >     >     > > On Sun, Aug 9, 2020 at 11:25 PM Petr Ivanov <
> > > > mr.weider@gmail.com
> > > >     >     > <mailto:mr.weider@gmail.com>> wrote:
> > > >     >     > > Hi, Val!
> > > >     >     > > Thanks for your efforts on this endeavour!
> > > >     >     > >
> > > >     >     > >
> > > >     >     > > I would like to suggest deliveries changes in Apache
> > Ignite
> > > > 3.0:
> > > >     >     > >  — modularised  binary delivery — single minimal
binary
> > for
> > > >     > starting
> > > >     >     > Ignite and all other modules and parts of the project
> > > > (benchmarks,
> > > >     >     > examples, etc.) packed in their own binary which can
be
> > added
> > > > via
> > > >     > custom
> > > >     >     > dependency management tool (i.e. modules.sh)
> > > >     >     > >  — same distribution for RPM and DEB packages
but with
> > > > modules
> > > >     > packed as
> > > >     >     > separate ones (PHP for example)
> > > >     >     > >  — separate thin client release cycle with custom
> > > versioning
> > > >     >     > > Possibly, we can we add additional section to the
> > document
> > > > you
> > > >     >     > introduced for this part.
> > > >     >     > >
> > > >     >     > > Also, it seems that full JDK11 support (including
> > building)
> > > > would
> > > >     > be a
> > > >     >     > huge milestone and a sign of healthy modern project
that
> > > tends
> > > > to be
> > > >     > on the
> > > >     >     > verge of mainstream technologies and not the stockpile
of
> > > > legacy
> > > >     > leftovers
> > > >     >     > (fully support Iliya in removing all that was deprecated
> > > and/or
> > > >     > marked as
> > > >     >     > unused anymore).
> > > >     >     > >
> > > >     >     > >
> > > >     >     > > > On 8 Aug 2020, at 02:00, Valentin Kulichenko
<
> > > >     >     > valentin.kulichenko@gmail.com <mailto:
> > > > valentin.kulichenko@gmail.com
> > > >     > >>
> > > >     >     > wrote:
> > > >     >     > > >
> > > >     >     > > > Igniters,
> > > >     >     > > >
> > > >     >     > > > I've created the page:
> > > >     >     > > >
> > > >     >
> > > >
> > >
> >
> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/IGNITE/Apache*Ignite*3.0__;Kys!!O3mv9RujDHg!2GlQzPzSAyxjW5tzyIzjaVVuR5_U_s65MCFLww8yIHRMzDqSrm5C2nkXYQErpm9uWJo_$
> > > >     > <
> > > >     >     >
> > > >     >
> > > >
> > >
> >
> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/IGNITE/Apache*Ignite*3.0__;Kys!!O3mv9RujDHg!2GlQzPzSAyxjW5tzyIzjaVVuR5_U_s65MCFLww8yIHRMzDqSrm5C2nkXYQErpm9uWJo_$
> > > >     > >
> > > >     >     > > >
> > > >     >     > > > That's not everything I have in mind, but
I believe
> > there
> > > > is
> > > >     > already a
> > > >     >     > lot
> > > >     >     > > > to talk about :)
> > > >     >     > > >
> > > >     >     > > > Please take a look let me know if you have
any
> > concerns,
> > > >     > objections, or
> > > >     >     > > > questions. Once we reach the consensus on
the
> proposed
> > > > changes,
> > > >     > I will
> > > >     >     > > > start creating tickets in Jira and a more
detailed
> > plan.
> > > >     >     > > >
> > > >     >     > > > -Val
> > > >     >     > > >
> > > >     >     > > > On Thu, Aug 6, 2020 at 6:28 PM Saikat Maitra
<
> > > >     > saikat.maitra@gmail.com
> > > >     >     > <mailto:saikat.maitra@gmail.com>>
> > > >     >     > > > wrote:
> > > >     >     > > >
> > > >     >     > > >> Hi Denis, Val
> > > >     >     > > >>
> > > >     >     > > >> Thank you for your reply and really appreciate
it.
> It
> > > > will be
> > > >     > very
> > > >     >     > cool to
> > > >     >     > > >> be able to connect and plan release together
and
> learn
> > > > more
> > > >     > about
> > > >     >     > Ignite in
> > > >     >     > > >> the process :)
> > > >     >     > > >>
> > > >     >     > > >> Regards
> > > >     >     > > >> Saikat
> > > >     >     > > >>
> > > >     >     > > >>
> > > >     >     > > >>
> > > >     >     > > >> On Thu, Aug 6, 2020 at 7:12 PM Valentin
Kulichenko <
> > > >     >     > > >> valentin.kulichenko@gmail.com <mailto:
> > > >     > valentin.kulichenko@gmail.com>>
> > > >     >     > wrote:
> > > >     >     > > >>
> > > >     >     > > >>> Hi Saikat,
> > > >     >     > > >>>
> > > >     >     > > >>> That surely is a great idea. We will
work together
> > with
> > > > Denis
> > > >     > on
> > > >     >     > setting
> > > >     >     > > >>> this up in the nearest future.
> > > >     >     > > >>>
> > > >     >     > > >>> -Val
> > > >     >     > > >>>
> > > >     >     > > >>> On Thu, Aug 6, 2020 at 10:21 AM Denis
Magda <
> > > > dmagda@apache.org
> > > >     >     > <mailto:dmagda@apache.org>> wrote:
> > > >     >     > > >>>
> > > >     >     > > >>>> Saikat,
> > > >     >     > > >>>>
> > > >     >     > > >>>> Fully support your idea on a virtual
meetup! Once
> > Val
> > > >     > collects and
> > > >     >     > > >>> outlines
> > > >     >     > > >>>> the main changes with directions
on wiki, we’ll go
> > > > ahead and
> > > >     >     > schedule
> > > >     >     > > >> the
> > > >     >     > > >>>> meetup to talk things out in a
bit more detail.
> > We’ll
> > > > use our
> > > >     > new
> > > >     >     > > >> Virtual
> > > >     >     > > >>>> Ignite Meetup group for that inviting
both Ignite
> > > >     > contributors and
> > > >     >     > > >>>> application developers.
> > > >     >     > > >>>>
> > > >     >     > > >>>> Denis
> > > >     >     > > >>>>
> > > >     >     > > >>>> On Thursday, August 6, 2020, Saikat
Maitra <
> > > >     > saikat.maitra@gmail.com
> > > >     >     > <mailto:saikat.maitra@gmail.com>>
> > > >     >     > > >>>> wrote:
> > > >     >     > > >>>>
> > > >     >     > > >>>>> Hi Valentin
> > > >     >     > > >>>>>
> > > >     >     > > >>>>> Thank you for sharing and
starting the thread. I
> am
> > > > thinking
> > > >     > if it
> > > >     >     > > >> will
> > > >     >     > > >>>> be
> > > >     >     > > >>>>> a good idea to have a virtual
meet setup to
> discuss
> > > on
> > > > the
> > > >     > release
> > > >     >     > > >>>>> planning.
> > > >     >     > > >>>>>
> > > >     >     > > >>>>> It will help to learn more
individual features to
> > be
> > > > added
> > > >     > and also
> > > >     >     > > >> to
> > > >     >     > > >>>>> understand about features
that have been
> deprecated
> > > and
> > > >     > scheduled
> > > >     >     > for
> > > >     >     > > >>>>> removal in Ignite 3.0 release.
Also it will help
> > > > community
> > > >     > member
> > > >     >     > to
> > > >     >     > > >>>>> connect in real time and ask
questions and share
> > > > feedback.
> > > >     >     > > >>>>>
> > > >     >     > > >>>>> Regards,
> > > >     >     > > >>>>> Saikat
> > > >     >     > > >>>>>
> > > >     >     > > >>>>> On Thu, Aug 6, 2020 at 3:51
AM Ilya Kasnacheev <
> > > >     >     > > >>>> ilya.kasnacheev@gmail.com <mailto:
> > > > ilya.kasnacheev@gmail.com>>
> > > >     >     > > >>>>> wrote:
> > > >     >     > > >>>>>
> > > >     >     > > >>>>>> Hello!
> > > >     >     > > >>>>>>
> > > >     >     > > >>>>>> I hope to see Apache Ignite
release 3.0 as API
> > > > trimming
> > > >     > release.
> > > >     >     > > >> Let
> > > >     >     > > >>> us
> > > >     >     > > >>>>>> correct external and internal
APIs for which we
> > have
> > > > better
> > > >     > ideas
> > > >     >     > > >>> now,
> > > >     >     > > >>>> as
> > > >     >     > > >>>>>> well as remove old and
deprecated code.
> > > >     >     > > >>>>>>
> > > >     >     > > >>>>>> We may also introduce
new configuration
> mechanisms
> > > and
> > > >     > user-facing
> > > >     >     > > >>> API
> > > >     >     > > >>>>>> (such as cache-less native
SQL queries), but
> this
> > we
> > > > could
> > > >     >     > > >> prototype
> > > >     >     > > >>>>> before
> > > >     >     > > >>>>>> starting the 3.0 task.
> > > >     >     > > >>>>>>
> > > >     >     > > >>>>>> I will advise against
targeting large new
> features
> > > at
> > > > 3.0.
> > > >     > They
> > > >     >     > can
> > > >     >     > > >>> be
> > > >     >     > > >>>>>> added in subsequent point
releases, whereas we
> > can't
> > > > really
> > > >     > remove
> > > >     >     > > >> or
> > > >     >     > > >>>>>> remodel stuff in point
releases.
> > > >     >     > > >>>>>>
> > > >     >     > > >>>>>> Regards,
> > > >     >     > > >>>>>> --
> > > >     >     > > >>>>>> Ilya Kasnacheev
> > > >     >     > > >>>>>>
> > > >     >     > > >>>>>>
> > > >     >     > > >>>>>> чт, 6 авг. 2020 г.
в 03:54, Valentin Kulichenko
> <
> > > >     >     > > >>>>>> valentin.kulichenko@gmail.com
<mailto:
> > > >     >     > valentin.kulichenko@gmail.com>>:
> > > >     >     > > >>>>>>
> > > >     >     > > >>>>>>> Igniters,
> > > >     >     > > >>>>>>>
> > > >     >     > > >>>>>>> I would like to kick
off a discussion regarding
> > > > Ignite 3.0.
> > > >     >     > > >> Ignite
> > > >     >     > > >>>> 2.0
> > > >     >     > > >>>>>>> exists for more than
3 years now and we've
> > already
> > > >     > collected a
> > > >     >     > > >>>>>> significant
> > > >     >     > > >>>>>>> list [1] of changes
that we would like to have,
> > but
> > > > cannot
> > > >     >     > > >>> implement
> > > >     >     > > >>>>>>> without breaking compatibility.
> > > >     >     > > >>>>>>>
> > > >     >     > > >>>>>>> I think it's time
to start planning for the
> next
> > > > major
> > > >     > release
> > > >     >     > > >> and
> > > >     >     > > >>>>>>> discussing what should
be included. I've
> already
> > > > gathered
> > > >     > some
> > > >     >     > > >>>>>> information
> > > >     >     > > >>>>>>> and feedback, and
have some thoughts on how to
> > > > approach
> > > >     > this. In
> > > >     >     > > >>> the
> > > >     >     > > >>>>> next
> > > >     >     > > >>>>>>> few days, I will put
everything into a Wiki
> page
> > > and
> > > > will
> > > >     > share
> > > >     >     > > >> it
> > > >     >     > > >>>> once
> > > >     >     > > >>>>>>> this is done. Stay
tuned!
> > > >     >     > > >>>>>>>
> > > >     >     > > >>>>>>> I'm willing to drive
the 3.0 activities going
> > > > forward as
> > > >     > well.
> > > >     >     > > >>>>>>>
> > > >     >     > > >>>>>>> In the meantime, if
there are any immediate
> > > thoughts
> > > > or
> > > >     > ideas,
> > > >     >     > > >>> please
> > > >     >     > > >>>>>> feel
> > > >     >     > > >>>>>>> free to join the thread
and share them.
> > > >     >     > > >>>>>>>
> > > >     >     > > >>>>>>> [1]
> > > >     >     > > >>>>>>>
> > > >     >     > > >>>>>>>
> > > >     >     > > >>>>>>
> > > >     >
> > > >
> > >
> >
> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/IGNITE/__;!!O3mv9RujDHg!2GlQzPzSAyxjW5tzyIzjaVVuR5_U_s65MCFLww8yIHRMzDqSrm5C2nkXYQErpp6mV7IJ$
> > > >     > <
> > > >     >     >
> > > >     >
> > > >
> > >
> >
> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/IGNITE/__;!!O3mv9RujDHg!2GlQzPzSAyxjW5tzyIzjaVVuR5_U_s65MCFLww8yIHRMzDqSrm5C2nkXYQErpp6mV7IJ$
> > > >     > >
> > > >     >     > > >>>>> Apache+Ignite+3.0+Wishlist
> > > >     >     > > >>>>>>>
> > > >     >     > > >>>>>>> Regards,
> > > >     >     > > >>>>>>> Val
> > > >     >     > > >>>>>>>
> > > >     >     > > >>>>>>
> > > >     >     > > >>>>>
> > > >     >     > > >>>>
> > > >     >     > > >>>>
> > > >     >     > > >>>> --
> > > >     >     > > >>>> -
> > > >     >     > > >>>> Denis
> > > >     >     > > >>>>
> > > >     >     > > >>>
> > > >     >     > > >>
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> >
>

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