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From "Carbone, Adam" <Adam.Carb...@bottomline.com>
Subject Re: Apache Ignite 3.0
Date Thu, 13 Aug 2020 13:03:03 GMT
Good Morning from the EastCoast 

I have to agree that the larger industry is tending towards immutability, and that you build
once and test, then you promote/migrate that immutable binary object, be is a library or a
docker image etc... however there are still patterns that allow you to determine at install/or
deployment time ( helm as an example, you choose based on your values what the package installs/provides
) It just isn't decided at runtime but install and often in a gitops type world that is determined
by configuration as code. I think run time is difficult to manage especially in our increasingly
containerized world. 

Regards.

Adam Carbone | Director of Innovation – Intelligent Platform Team | Bottomline Technologies
Office: 603-501-6446 | Mobile: 603-570-8418
www.bottomline.com
 
 

On 8/13/20, 8:01 AM, "Ilya Kasnacheev" <ilya.kasnacheev@gmail.com> wrote:

    Hello!
    
    On the contrary, I would suggest that apache2 way was outdated even at
    times when apache was all rage.
    
    Now the nginx approach is prevalent: on devops phase, assemble a custom
    bundle with all plugins included, store it somewhere, and ship it to
    production as a whole to remove any on-the-fly uncertainty from production.
    
    This is what docker does, but also maven, which downloads dependencies
    during build. You do not need to download anything in runtime, except for
    experimental deployments. You need to be all set before runtime starts.
    
    Regards,
    -- 
    Ilya Kasnacheev
    
    
    ср, 12 авг. 2020 г. в 09:48, Petr Ivanov <mr.weider@gmail.com>:
    
    > Hi, Val.
    >
    > > On 12 Aug 2020, at 01:31, Valentin Kulichenko <
    > valentin.kulichenko@gmail.com> wrote:
    > >
    > > Hi Petr,
    > >
    > > I agree -- we should better modularize the platform. The current way if
    > very error-prone, especially during upgrades -- any changes made within
    > IGNITE_HOME (configs, scripts, modules, etc.) must be merged with a new
    > version of the package. There is no standard way of doing this.
    > >
    > > However, I'm a bit concerned with your suggestion regarding custom
    > dependency management. Can you please elaborate on how you think it should
    > work? Are there tools we can reuse for this purpose? I would try to avoid
    > reinventing the wheel.
    >
    > I see it as a a2enmod | 2dismod analog of Apache2.
    >
    > We build and store Apache Ignite and its modules as separate binaries
    > (binary per module) then use custom script that will know where to download
    > necessary module. Or possibly use modified ignite.sh to specify required
    > optional libs in run command while ignite.sh will download everything
    > missing from known storage.
    >
    > The whole idea is in storing everything remotely and download on demand,
    > not have all libs locally from the start.
    >
    >
    > >
    > > -Val
    > >
    > > On Sun, Aug 9, 2020 at 11:25 PM Petr Ivanov <mr.weider@gmail.com
    > <mailto:mr.weider@gmail.com>> wrote:
    > > Hi, Val!
    > > Thanks for your efforts on this endeavour!
    > >
    > >
    > > I would like to suggest deliveries changes in Apache Ignite 3.0:
    > >  — modularised  binary delivery — single minimal binary for starting
    > Ignite and all other modules and parts of the project (benchmarks,
    > examples, etc.) packed in their own binary which can be added via custom
    > dependency management tool (i.e. modules.sh)
    > >  — same distribution for RPM and DEB packages but with modules packed as
    > separate ones (PHP for example)
    > >  — separate thin client release cycle with custom versioning
    > > Possibly, we can we add additional section to the document you
    > introduced for this part.
    > >
    > > Also, it seems that full JDK11 support (including building) would be a
    > huge milestone and a sign of healthy modern project that tends to be on the
    > verge of mainstream technologies and not the stockpile of legacy leftovers
    > (fully support Iliya in removing all that was deprecated and/or marked as
    > unused anymore).
    > >
    > >
    > > > On 8 Aug 2020, at 02:00, Valentin Kulichenko <
    > valentin.kulichenko@gmail.com <mailto:valentin.kulichenko@gmail.com>>
    > wrote:
    > > >
    > > > Igniters,
    > > >
    > > > I've created the page:
    > > > https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/IGNITE/Apache*Ignite*3.0__;Kys!!O3mv9RujDHg!2GlQzPzSAyxjW5tzyIzjaVVuR5_U_s65MCFLww8yIHRMzDqSrm5C2nkXYQErpm9uWJo_$
 <
    > https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/IGNITE/Apache*Ignite*3.0__;Kys!!O3mv9RujDHg!2GlQzPzSAyxjW5tzyIzjaVVuR5_U_s65MCFLww8yIHRMzDqSrm5C2nkXYQErpm9uWJo_$
>
    > > >
    > > > That's not everything I have in mind, but I believe there is already a
    > lot
    > > > to talk about :)
    > > >
    > > > Please take a look let me know if you have any concerns, objections, or
    > > > questions. Once we reach the consensus on the proposed changes, I will
    > > > start creating tickets in Jira and a more detailed plan.
    > > >
    > > > -Val
    > > >
    > > > On Thu, Aug 6, 2020 at 6:28 PM Saikat Maitra <saikat.maitra@gmail.com
    > <mailto:saikat.maitra@gmail.com>>
    > > > wrote:
    > > >
    > > >> Hi Denis, Val
    > > >>
    > > >> Thank you for your reply and really appreciate it. It will be very
    > cool to
    > > >> be able to connect and plan release together and learn more about
    > Ignite in
    > > >> the process :)
    > > >>
    > > >> Regards
    > > >> Saikat
    > > >>
    > > >>
    > > >>
    > > >> On Thu, Aug 6, 2020 at 7:12 PM Valentin Kulichenko <
    > > >> valentin.kulichenko@gmail.com <mailto:valentin.kulichenko@gmail.com>>
    > wrote:
    > > >>
    > > >>> Hi Saikat,
    > > >>>
    > > >>> That surely is a great idea. We will work together with Denis on
    > setting
    > > >>> this up in the nearest future.
    > > >>>
    > > >>> -Val
    > > >>>
    > > >>> On Thu, Aug 6, 2020 at 10:21 AM Denis Magda <dmagda@apache.org
    > <mailto:dmagda@apache.org>> wrote:
    > > >>>
    > > >>>> Saikat,
    > > >>>>
    > > >>>> Fully support your idea on a virtual meetup! Once Val collects
and
    > > >>> outlines
    > > >>>> the main changes with directions on wiki, we’ll go ahead
and
    > schedule
    > > >> the
    > > >>>> meetup to talk things out in a bit more detail. We’ll use
our new
    > > >> Virtual
    > > >>>> Ignite Meetup group for that inviting both Ignite contributors
and
    > > >>>> application developers.
    > > >>>>
    > > >>>> Denis
    > > >>>>
    > > >>>> On Thursday, August 6, 2020, Saikat Maitra <saikat.maitra@gmail.com
    > <mailto:saikat.maitra@gmail.com>>
    > > >>>> wrote:
    > > >>>>
    > > >>>>> Hi Valentin
    > > >>>>>
    > > >>>>> Thank you for sharing and starting the thread. I am thinking
if it
    > > >> will
    > > >>>> be
    > > >>>>> a good idea to have a virtual meet setup to discuss on
the release
    > > >>>>> planning.
    > > >>>>>
    > > >>>>> It will help to learn more individual features to be added
and also
    > > >> to
    > > >>>>> understand about features that have been deprecated and
scheduled
    > for
    > > >>>>> removal in Ignite 3.0 release. Also it will help community
member
    > to
    > > >>>>> connect in real time and ask questions and share feedback.
    > > >>>>>
    > > >>>>> Regards,
    > > >>>>> Saikat
    > > >>>>>
    > > >>>>> On Thu, Aug 6, 2020 at 3:51 AM Ilya Kasnacheev <
    > > >>>> ilya.kasnacheev@gmail.com <mailto:ilya.kasnacheev@gmail.com>>
    > > >>>>> wrote:
    > > >>>>>
    > > >>>>>> Hello!
    > > >>>>>>
    > > >>>>>> I hope to see Apache Ignite release 3.0 as API trimming
release.
    > > >> Let
    > > >>> us
    > > >>>>>> correct external and internal APIs for which we have
better ideas
    > > >>> now,
    > > >>>> as
    > > >>>>>> well as remove old and deprecated code.
    > > >>>>>>
    > > >>>>>> We may also introduce new configuration mechanisms
and user-facing
    > > >>> API
    > > >>>>>> (such as cache-less native SQL queries), but this we
could
    > > >> prototype
    > > >>>>> before
    > > >>>>>> starting the 3.0 task.
    > > >>>>>>
    > > >>>>>> I will advise against targeting large new features
at 3.0. They
    > can
    > > >>> be
    > > >>>>>> added in subsequent point releases, whereas we can't
really remove
    > > >> or
    > > >>>>>> remodel stuff in point releases.
    > > >>>>>>
    > > >>>>>> Regards,
    > > >>>>>> --
    > > >>>>>> Ilya Kasnacheev
    > > >>>>>>
    > > >>>>>>
    > > >>>>>> чт, 6 авг. 2020 г. в 03:54, Valentin Kulichenko
<
    > > >>>>>> valentin.kulichenko@gmail.com <mailto:
    > valentin.kulichenko@gmail.com>>:
    > > >>>>>>
    > > >>>>>>> Igniters,
    > > >>>>>>>
    > > >>>>>>> I would like to kick off a discussion regarding
Ignite 3.0.
    > > >> Ignite
    > > >>>> 2.0
    > > >>>>>>> exists for more than 3 years now and we've already
collected a
    > > >>>>>> significant
    > > >>>>>>> list [1] of changes that we would like to have,
but cannot
    > > >>> implement
    > > >>>>>>> without breaking compatibility.
    > > >>>>>>>
    > > >>>>>>> I think it's time to start planning for the next
major release
    > > >> and
    > > >>>>>>> discussing what should be included. I've already
gathered some
    > > >>>>>> information
    > > >>>>>>> and feedback, and have some thoughts on how to
approach this. In
    > > >>> the
    > > >>>>> next
    > > >>>>>>> few days, I will put everything into a Wiki page
and will share
    > > >> it
    > > >>>> once
    > > >>>>>>> this is done. Stay tuned!
    > > >>>>>>>
    > > >>>>>>> I'm willing to drive the 3.0 activities going forward
as well.
    > > >>>>>>>
    > > >>>>>>> In the meantime, if there are any immediate thoughts
or ideas,
    > > >>> please
    > > >>>>>> feel
    > > >>>>>>> free to join the thread and share them.
    > > >>>>>>>
    > > >>>>>>> [1]
    > > >>>>>>>
    > > >>>>>>>
    > > >>>>>> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/IGNITE/__;!!O3mv9RujDHg!2GlQzPzSAyxjW5tzyIzjaVVuR5_U_s65MCFLww8yIHRMzDqSrm5C2nkXYQErpp6mV7IJ$
 <
    > https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/IGNITE/__;!!O3mv9RujDHg!2GlQzPzSAyxjW5tzyIzjaVVuR5_U_s65MCFLww8yIHRMzDqSrm5C2nkXYQErpp6mV7IJ$
>
    > > >>>>> Apache+Ignite+3.0+Wishlist
    > > >>>>>>>
    > > >>>>>>> Regards,
    > > >>>>>>> Val
    > > >>>>>>>
    > > >>>>>>
    > > >>>>>
    > > >>>>
    > > >>>>
    > > >>>> --
    > > >>>> -
    > > >>>> Denis
    > > >>>>
    > > >>>
    > > >>
    > >
    >
    >
    

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