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From Valentin Kulichenko <valentin.kuliche...@gmail.com>
Subject Re: Interoperable Ignite.NET Dates
Date Tue, 03 Nov 2020 12:08:11 GMT
Cool, makes sense to me then. Please feel free to create a ticket and mark
it with the "ignite-3" label.

-Val

On Tue, Nov 3, 2020 at 4:03 AM Alexey Kukushkin <kukushkinalexey@gmail.com>
wrote:

> Val, absolutely - our proposal affects .NET API only.
>
> вт, 3 нояб. 2020 г. в 15:00, Valentin Kulichenko <
> valentin.kulichenko@gmail.com>:
>
> > Got it. So it only affects the .NET side, correct?
> >
> > -Val
> >
> > On Tue, Nov 3, 2020 at 3:52 AM Alexey Kukushkin <
> kukushkinalexey@gmail.com
> > >
> > wrote:
> >
> > > Hi Val,
> > >
> > > Our proposal does not overlap with IEP-54
> > > <
> > >
> >
> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/IGNITE/IEP-54%3A+Schema-first+Approach
> > > >,
> > > which proposes changing Ignite date storage format. Our proposal is
> > > enhancing Ignite to handle .NET dates in a truly portable way instead
> of
> > > requiring the application developers to repeat this task every time:
> > >
> > >    - Write .NET dates as Ignite dates (today .NET dates are written as
> > >    generic Ignite objects)
> > >    - Convert Local .NET dates to UTC inside Ignite and to it using Java
> > >    calendars.
> > >
> > >
> > > вт, 3 нояб. 2020 г. в 11:10, Valentin Kulichenko <
> > > valentin.kulichenko@gmail.com>:
> > >
> > > > Hi Alexey,
> > > >
> > > > The IEP-54 [1] describes the data layout proposed for Ignite 3.0, it
> > > > includes various date/time types. Can you please take a look and
> check
> > if
> > > > this addresses your concerns? We can then discuss further if needed.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/IGNITE/IEP-54%3A+Schema-first+Approach
> > > >
> > > > -Val
> > > >
> > > > On Tue, Nov 3, 2020 at 12:05 AM Alexey Kukushkin <
> > > > kukushkinalexey@gmail.com>
> > > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > Pavel,
> > > > >
> > > > > We propose changing public API so this is for Ignite 3.0.
> > > > >
> > > > > Thanks!
> > > > >
> > > > > вт, 3 нояб. 2020 г. в 02:17, Pavel Tupitsyn <ptupitsyn@apache.org
> >:
> > > > >
> > > > > > Alexey,
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Just to clarify before we start the discussion:
> > > > > > this proposal seems to introduce some breaking changes, so we
are
> > > > talking
> > > > > > about Ignite 3.0, correct?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Pavel
> > > > > >
> > > > > > On Tue, Nov 3, 2020 at 12:13 AM Alexey Kukushkin <
> > > > > > kukushkinalexey@gmail.com>
> > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > Igniters,
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > What do you think about changing .NET API to read/write
> portable
> > > > dates
> > > > > by
> > > > > > > default and making that really portable?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > *The Problem*
> > > > > > > Presently .NET API writes dates as composite Ignite objects.
> Only
> > > > .NET
> > > > > > > clients can read such dates: any other client (JDBC, Java,
etc)
> > > does
> > > > > not
> > > > > > > understand it without custom deserialization.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > It is still possible to configure .NET serialization to
write
> > dates
> > > > as
> > > > > > > Ignite dates - see DateTime Serialization note
> > > > > > > <
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
> https://ignite.apache.org/docs/latest/net-specific/net-platform-interoperability#types-compatibility
> > > > > > > >.
> > > > > > > But then Ignite accepts only UTC dates, requiring the
> application
> > > > > > > developers to convert local dates to UTC dates and back.
This
> > task
> > > is
> > > > > not
> > > > > > > trivial: DateTime.ToUniversalTime
> > > > > > > <
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
> https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/dotnet/api/system.datetime.touniversaltime?view=netcore-3.1
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > uses
> > > > > > > calendars different from Java (and the .NET calendars are
the
> > > invalid
> > > > > > ones
> > > > > > > - especially for pre-1990 dates).
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > The motivation for the current default behavior was probably
> the
> > > > desire
> > > > > > to
> > > > > > > keep the Time Zone information: Ignite dates do not store
time
> > > zones.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > In our experience interoperability is more important than
> storing
> > > > time
> > > > > > zone
> > > > > > > info.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > *The Proposal*
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >    1. Always write .NET dates as portable Ignite dates:
get rid
> > of
> > > > the
> > > > > > >    BinaryReflectiveSerializer.ForceTimestamp flag that
> currently
> > > > > triggers
> > > > > > > this
> > > > > > >    behavior.
> > > > > > >       - We could still keep the ForceTimestamp flag if
saving
> > .NET
> > > > > dates
> > > > > > as
> > > > > > >       transparent objects seems a useful case. We do not
think
> it
> > > is
> > > > > > > useful.
> > > > > > >    2. Automatically convert Local dates to UTC and back
> *inside*
> > > > > > >    Ignite.NET.
> > > > > > >       - In this case we lose the DateTime.Kind of UTC dates:
we
> > > > write a
> > > > > > UTC
> > > > > > >       date but we would read a Local date since Ignite
would
> > always
> > > > > > > convert UTC
> > > > > > >       to Local when reading.
> > > > > > >       We could add a UtcDate date flag to
> QuerySqlFieldAttribute
> > > > > > >       and BinaryReflectiveSerializer to control the
> > deserialization
> > > > > > > behavior if
> > > > > > >       keeping dates in UTC format use case seems important.
> > > > > > >    3. Use NodaTime <https://nodatime.org/> for UTC<->Local
> > > > > conversions.
> > > > > > >    Noda time uses Java calendars making the conversion
truely
> > > > portable.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > *The Benefits*
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >    1. We think portable dates are much more important than
> > storing
> > > > time
> > > > > > >    zone info. Why do we store time zones for every date
on the
> > > server
> > > > > > > anyway?
> > > > > > >    Time zone is client-side info.
> > > > > > >    2. Simpler application code: no more manual configuration
to
> > > > trigger
> > > > > > the
> > > > > > >    portable behavior.
> > > > > > >    3. Non-trivial code to make the truly portable UTC<->Local
> > > > > conversion
> > > > > > is
> > > > > > >    implemented once inside Ignite instead of having every
> > > Ignite.NET
> > > > > > >    application implementing it.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Thank you!
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > --
> > > > > > > Best regards,
> > > > > > > Alexey
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > --
> > > > > Best regards,
> > > > > Alexey
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > Best regards,
> > > Alexey
> > >
> >
>
>
> --
> Best regards,
> Alexey
>

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