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From Steve Poole <>
Subject Re: Re: Kato status (Was: Actively retiring projects)
Date Thu, 26 Jan 2012 16:53:13 GMT
Hi all.

Apache Kato was initially created  to develop the specification and
reference implementation for JSR 326.   That is by definition a
cross-industry activity.   To complete the JSR and create an industry
standard API we need  a community which has  participants on both sides of
the API:  those who would use the API to access data  and those  who would
provide the data to be read.  Without a  broad  consumer/provider community
we are not going to be able to complete the JSR any time soon.

The rebooting of the OpenJDK community and new  input from Oracle on their
situation  leads me to suggest a new direction for Kato at this time.

 I hope that  Oracle will post their own statement  but I think it's fair
for me to say that, at this point,   they have other business concerns that
are more pressing than helping us out right now.   That may change later.
The good news is that with the OpenJDK reboot  we  have a real opportunity
to address some of our technical challenges  directly without requiring
Oracles assistance.   I'm already an active participant in OpenJDK and I do
intend to scratch a few itches over time that way.

Given all that I'd like to propose the following simple plan to revitalise
Apache Kato

1 - We ignore or put on hold  the JSR work. With limited involvement from
Oracle at the moment  we have to assume that its not going to complete
anytime soon and maybe never.
2 - We refocus Kato towards  post-mortem diagnostics tools.  We already
have a good set of tools and I'd like to improve them and add more.  For
instance  I have some ideas for a Java serialization diagnostics tool that
would fit well here.
3 - Where we find a need for new data from the JVM we (as individuals) work
with the  OpenJDK community to make that happen.

On Wed, Jan 18, 2012 at 10:39 AM, Stuart Monteith <>wrote:

> Hi,
>        I'm cross posting this between kato-dev and kato-spec as it is
> important to both the Kato incubator and JSR-326. It is a discussion on the
> general incubator mailing list.
> There is also a discussion, initiated by Robert, about parking the Kato
> incubator "[VOTE] Park Kato". There have also been discussions on the
> reporting for Kato.
> Either way, please read. A decision will have to be made soon about what
> to do about Kato. I'd rather we decide rather than having that decision
> made for us.
> Regards,
>   Stuart
> -------- Original Message --------
> Subject: Re: Kato status (Was: Actively retiring projects)
> Date: Mon, 16 Jan 2012 13:13:23 +0000
> From: Robert Burrell Donkin <**>
> Reply-To:
> To:
> On Mon, Jan 16, 2012 at 12:37 PM, Jukka Zitting <>
> wrote:
>> Hi,
>> There seems to be some people assuming that the IPMC wants to
>> terminate the Kato podling. Looking back I wonder if my original
>> status review was the source of this:
> :-)
>  On Sun, Jan 8, 2012 at 1:46 PM, Jukka Zitting <>
>> wrote:
>>> On Wed, Nov 16, 2011 at 9:36 PM, Sam Ruby <>
>>> wrote:
>>>> 2008-11-06 Kato
>>> S: Zero activity.
>>> R: Terminate.
>> This was based on looking at commit and kato-dev@ list activity, both
>> zero or very low for an extended amount of time. There was no recent
>> status report.
> AFAICT Soon after entry, the standards process stalled. This stopped
> active development. Most of the activity after then has been the
> community trying to find a way around the standards issue, with little
> success. Progress depends on Oracle coming to a decision (one way or
> the other) about the future of the standard. This might happen today,
> tomorrow or in ten years time.
> Robert
> ------------------------------**------------------------------**---------
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