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From "Danny Angus" <da...@apache.org>
Subject RE: Straw poll : FW: Projects to nudge into top-level ( was Re: Concern about the futureof Apache. )
Date Thu, 24 Oct 2002 21:30:25 GMT
Noel,
1st this is probably better suited to reorg@apache.org
2nd What is your opinion re James as a top-level project?

other points below..

> Good things could come from a reorg, but my own view as a non-insider is
> that the interests of outside users (e.g, the potential consuming
> developers) should be incorporated into any reorg that is visible 
> on the web
> site(s).

This is all under (full and heated!) discussion

 
> If there were to be a reorg, I'd want thought put into semantic
> relationships.  Yes, things like taglibs and struts can be used with other
> servlet engines than Tomcat, but we need to make it easy for 
> people to find
> things and pull them together related technologies.  As Serge noted,
> increased visibility for specific projects could be a good thing for the
> right project(s), but too broad a tree makes it harder to see the 
> forest for
> the trees.

There have been discussions on the distinction between external appearances and internal structures,
and discussions around the notion of self-categorisation by projects.

> FWIW, it might be nice if there were a matchers/mailets 
> sub-project of James
> similar to the taglib (sub-)project.  But that can be dealt with after we
> address the classloading issues.

Yeah, its a long term plan of mine to see mailet seperated off as a fully independant su-project
of James, and a project delivering James independant mailets/matchers would align well with
this.

> 
> Questions:
> 
>    Is there any real infrastructure related issue for reorganizing?
>    If so, what?

Yeah Brian has suggested making Source Cast available to the ASF, there have been other discussions
relating to the process of self-categorisation of projects, but its early days.
So far the two concrete things to emerge have been the apache-incubator project, and the confirmation
that jakarta sub-projects (EG james etc) can petition the board for elevation to project status.


>    Does the fact that Tomcat isn't on the list reveal an underlying
>    "jealousy" that Tomcat is the perceived BMOC on the Jakarta
>    campus, and some people want more mindshare?

Isn't it? or is it that TC is obvoius and well represented by foundation members?

> 
>    Is this reorg being considered to encourage some projects to
>    stay, rather than jump ship after having established themselves?

No, I believe its come about as a result of a general ill-defined dissatisfaction with the
current situation, the size of jakarta, the danger of losing sight of "The Apache Way", and
the widespread desire to see Apache *not* become simply a sourceforge.
IMO there is no crisis, or definite timescale, but to avert a future crisis, and to have time
to ramble through the usual interminable debating, discussions are starting now.

> 
>    What would the reorg impose upon projects?

AFAIK nothing that was not agreed by projects, PMC's, sub-projects or whomever is the relevant
group.

> 
> 	--- Noel
> 
> 
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