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From "Danny Angus" <da...@apache.org>
Subject Re: WORA Considered Evil ;-)
Date Sun, 29 Jun 2003 11:27:27 GMT

> You can choose to ignore them, but in doing so, James will just never
> exit the "cool concept" stage it has been in since its creation.

In part I agree this discussion addresses James' competitor in one field, but don't forget
the whole other half of James' uphill struggle is our other competitor, M$ Exchange.

We've taken steps in that direction too, offering to try to make James meet Open Office Groupware's
requirements for a groupware server. (OOogw are developing a client only)


> I believe there is critical mass for this project to exit that stage and
> enter the next phase where it really starts eroding marketshares of
> other mail servers, but the mindset of its developers must exit the 'go
> pure and screw their stupid fears' because it's not the right approach.

I don't believe that any of the active James developers have that approach, we're pretty much
all here because James does the job, or because we have a job we want to make James do, or
true to the Apache way "James didn't do the job I wanted, no none fixed it for me so I did
it myself".


> Look: everybody on this planet hates sendmail, qmail users like the
> software very much but strongly dislike the fact there is no community
> around it, postfix is gaining momentum not because of technical
> excellence but because of its real open source nature.
> 
> Combine technical and architectural excellence with an apache-style open
> development community and you have the potential to become one of the
> big players of this market.
> 
> But as yourself: why this is not happening?

James has been described by someone as Apache's "best kept secret". I met some guys (ASF members)
a year or so ago and some of them were unaware that the ASF had a mailserver project.

As a developer I've quite liked that out-of-the-spotlight ability to press ahead with development
in peace and quiet.
However we're now getting more attention, helped no  doubt by promotion to TLP, but also a
renaisance of developer interest.

> Today, UNIX sysadm understand that java is not *that* unsafe, if you can
> run a those huge appservers without that many security problems. So,
> they will give you at least one chance of proving your point.
> 
> So, IMO, the time has come for james to show what java can do for email.

+1 

> They are willing to make a step toward you, are you willing to make a
> step toward them?

I wouldn't be happy to encourage Pier to gamble on James. Sooner or later James will be easily
capable of allaying Piers fears, and *that* is the time he should use it not now. 
If _anyone_ was encouraged to take a chance and try James and it let them down that would
be infinitely more harmful to our reputation than having people shy away from James. 
We'll fight for Piers attention when we know that James really *is* the right product for
his need.

d.
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