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From Serge Knystautas <ser...@lokitech.com>
Subject Re: More info from bounces
Date Thu, 31 Jul 2003 04:36:17 GMT
Noel J. Bergman wrote:
>>what about doing something like stick the error response
>>as a header in the bounce message?
> Obviously, we have no control over the content of another server's bounce
> messages, but see http://nagoya.apache.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=18309,
> which proposes that James implement RFC 1894
> (http://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc1894.txt).

Ah nice, yes exactly what I'm looking for.  Seems like we'd only need to 
add another mime part to the bounce message.  It would also be nice to 
have a parser for this RFC, but that wouldn't necessarily live within 
James server.

>>The motivation for this is to recognize soft bounces (mailbox full, mail
>>servers down) from hard bounces
> Servers should probably not be sending a bounce, or at least a non-RFC 1894
> bounce, for a soft error.  VERP seems to be somewhat predicated upon bounces
> being permanent, at least for that message.  To work around the fact that
> the errors may relate to a transient mailbox error, it seems that VERP
> mailers will be tolerant of a configured number of bounces, and will then
> send an "warning message" to inform the user.  If the warning bounces, the
> user is disconnected from the list.  That seems to describe the behavior
> I've seen from ezmlm, but Brian (or perhaps some of our members) would know
> better.

To clarify some cases:
- no route to mail server, connection disconnected, etc..., those are 
temporary failures that result in delivery retries.
- your mailbox is full is a good example of a soft error (bounce sent).
- your mailbox does not exist is a hard error (bounce sent).

I agree that after a given # of soft errors, a hard error gets, just 
like after a given # of temporary failures, you'd get a soft error.

So really, looks like I need to understand RFC 1894.  We did a mailing 
for a customer and got about 1700 bounces (most James), but I can scan 
the bounces for something that would appear in that mime part.


Serge Knystautas
Lokitech >> software . strategy . design >> http://www.lokitech.com/
p. 1.301.656.5501
e. sergek@lokitech.com

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