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From "Noel J. Bergman" <n...@devtech.com>
Subject RE: More info from bounces
Date Thu, 28 Aug 2003 18:38:42 GMT
Andreas,

We would certainly like to see your code, and I would very much like to see
RFC 3464 implemented.

There are two sides of bounce management.  James generating notices, e.g.
RFC 3464 DSNs; and James understanding bounces, e.g. ,DSN, VERP, etc.  What
aspect(s) have you implemented?

Perhaps we should define a <DSNProcessor> element for RemoteDelivery.  If
that has a value, RemoteDelivery would send messages with attached
attributes to that processor instead of doing an internal bounce.  A <DSN>
element can control whether ALL messages are sent to the DNSProcessor,
PERMANENT failure, TEMPORARY failure, etc.  The current implementation would
be equivalent to <DSN>PERMANENT</DSN>.  Eventually we could deprecate the
bounce code, and make <DSNProcessor> a mandatory configuration element, with
<DSN> defaulting to PERMANENT.

Likewise, we could add them as optional elements to LocalDelivery, so that
positive DSNs can be sent.

	--- Noel

-----Original Message-----
From: Andreas Goggerle [mailto:andreas.goeggerle@pansoft.de]
Sent: Thursday, August 28, 2003 12:34
To: 'James Developers List'
Subject: RE: More info from bounces


Hi,

I just implemented a simple bounce management within James. The code parses
the James message Serge mentioned and detects soft and hard bounces. I agree
that this is not a nice way, so I would like to fix the bug 18309 Noel
mentioned. I will implement RFC 3464
(http://www.faqs.org/rfcs/rfc3464.html), which replaces RFC 1894.

I am no committer or contributer for James so far. Do you think there will
be a way to get my code placed in James?


Andreas


PANSOFT GmbH
Tullastr. 28
D-76131 Karlsruhe
Germany

Web: http://www.pansoft.de
Mail: mailto:andreas.goeggerle@pansoft.de


> -----Original Message-----
> Von: Noel J. Bergman [mailto:noel@devtech.com]
> Gesendet: Donnerstag, 31. Juli 2003 04:57
> An: James Developers List
> Betreff: RE: More info from bounces
>
>
> Serge,
>
> > the challenge I have is the exact error message is
> > buried deep in the message.
>
> > what about doing something like stick the error response
> > as a header in the bounce message?
>
> Obviously, we have no control over the content of another
> server's bounce
> messages, but see
> http://nagoya.apache.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=18309,
> which proposes that James implement RFC 1894
> (http://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc1894.txt).
>
> > The motivation for this is to recognize soft bounces
> (mailbox full, mail
> > servers down) from hard bounces
>
> Servers should probably not be sending a bounce, or at least
> a non-RFC 1894
> bounce, for a soft error.  VERP seems to be somewhat
> predicated upon bounces
> being permanent, at least for that message.  To work around
> the fact that
> the errors may relate to a transient mailbox error, it seems that VERP
> mailers will be tolerant of a configured number of bounces,
> and will then
> send an "warning message" to inform the user.  If the warning
> bounces, the
> user is disconnected from the list.  That seems to describe
> the behavior
> I've seen from ezmlm, but Brian (or perhaps some of our
> members) would know
> better.
>
> 	--- Noel
>
>
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