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From Stefano Bagnara <apa...@bago.org>
Subject Re: [jira] Commented: (JAMES-461) Maildir support
Date Thu, 18 May 2006 22:57:40 GMT
Steve, take me easy, but I think I can agree with all you wrote, but 
this is totally off topic.

Please, EVERYONE, download the attachment contributed and tell me where 
the GPL thing is.

There is not such dependency on GPL, noone here want to include a GPL 
project in James, noone ever said that. There is NO ARTIFACT, there is 
no SMELL.

And you probably misunderstood my "Not all apache software users use it 
due to the ASL licensing".

When you add JDBC support to an application you add support for an API 
that is under a License accepted by the ASF.

There are plenty of JDBC implementations with the most different 
licensing, even GPL, but it is with no doubt an interest to every user 
that you support the JDBC API: everyone will take his advantages, 
someone will use GPL implementations, others will write their own 
implementations, it simply DOES NOT MATTER.

Please, again and for the last time, this thread is named "JAMES-461" 
and the issue as an attachment: we are talking of this issue, not of 
anything else, not of GPL, and not even of MailDir as nothing in that 
patch is "maildir specific".

I think we're all loosing time with this discussion because people do 
not understand the subject of the thread (JAMES-461, a patch, a 
contribution).

Don't be so "easy" to simply read the subject of the Issue and start 
throwing fuel on the fire. I just renamed the issue to "Javamail Store 
based MailRepository support (was: Maildir support)" so I guess we can 
start talking of concrete things and features for james and stop talking 
of unrelated topics.

Stefano

PS: that said, I think I am the only one that reviewed the zip file, btw 
I may have missed something and I would be REALLY happy if, instead of 
all this messages anyone could help reviewing the code and opening 
concrete issues. I feel dumb when I keep trying to explain something and 
people continue on the wrong path (I hope in the last year I proved I 
deserve at least a little trust, but maybe not).

Steve Brewin wrote:
> Stefano Bagnara wrote:
> <snipped>
>>> And this is not in the interest of people using Apache software.
>> I don't agree: Not all apache software users use it due to the ASL 
>> licensing.
> 
> While not wishing to throw more fuel on the fire, tainting an Apache project with a dependency
on any artifacts that incorporate or even smell of GPL style restrictions is definitely not
in the interest of people using Apache software. Moreover, the ASF will be the worse for this
if it occurs.
> 
> Perhaps one of the better contributions I have made to Apache is to help turn around
the attitudes of a number of major software vendors and corporates with whom I've worked.
They have moved from forbidding the inclusion of open software in a product or application
to it being permissible to include software with ASL style licenses. Though in truth, most
interpret this as Apache software. Their legal eagles see Apache software and pass it as cool.
> 
> Apache is seen as a brand. Its been a hard fought battle to build this level of trust
in the brand. We have moved from an automatic no to an automatic yes. 
> 
> When we have a borderline case my view is that we shouldn't go there. The risk of breaking
the trust people have in us far outweighs any pragmatic benefits a particular feature in a
particular project might gain. 
> 
>> I believe that most James users would use it even 
>> if it were GPL.
>> So I think that *adding a new feature* is not against "the 
>> interest of 
>> people using Apache software"
> 
> Its true that some people are happy with most any license agreement. Some people are
not all people. We have to maintain the trust of all people.
> 
> Cheers
> 
> -- Steve
> 
> 
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