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From Alex Karasulu <aok...@bellsouth.net>
Subject Re: Maven2 opinions
Date Thu, 01 Jun 2006 23:19:16 GMT
Steve Brewin wrote:

>Alex Karasulu wrote:
>  
>
>>Hi all,
>>
>>Noel asked me to post my opinions to this thread as a result of my
>>recent experiences with m2.  Brace yourselves because I may
>>jump around
>>in this email :).
>>
>>I don't even know how to start off.  Perhaps I can say Maven
>>is a double
>>edged sword for me.  It has been a journey developing ApacheDS with M1
>>then migrating to M2.  Directory has been completely developed with
>>Maven since day one.
>>
>>It made many things easier at first over ant but soon as the number of
>>project modules increased and we had to do things out of the
>>ordinary we
>>found that it was just as verbose and sometimes harder to manage.  I
>>don't have the time to list all the pros and cons but let me
>>generalize
>>and say this.  For the most simple of cases wrt every aspect of a
>>project from builds to generating a website maven is great:
>>referring to
>>maven 2 here specifically (would never touch m1 ever again).  When
>>things get complicated or out of the ordinary where they do not fall
>>into a prescribed Maven pattern that's when Maven starts behaving
>>oddly.  This and how SNAPSHOTs are handled are my greatest peeves.
>>
>>Also we still have not figured how to get some of the new site doc
>>generation mechanisms working properly.  Thinking we could use this
>>doxia stuff for generating xdocs we have stuffed our latest doco into
>>confluence at safehaus and still have to figure out a way to get that
>>stuff into our repo now.  It's a bit of a mess which we must solve
>>soon.  I hope things have come along far enough since my m1-m2
>>conversion where we can actually use these plugins effectively to
>>rejuvinate our aging website.
>>
>>In the end, I feel that maven is a great idea with a poor
>>implementation.  But then again everyone thinks they can do it better
>>don't they?  I've begun to suspect that even m2 has issues like the
>>latest problems I've had with the failing remote repositories.  Maven
>>just has not been the same since codehaus/maven.org went down.
>>
>>I've already made the mistake of pushing maven on the pro ant Felix
>>people and unofficially they're not too happy with that and I feel
>>responsible.  Not saying you guys should not use maven tho.  However I
>>think if you have a pre-existing project built on ant and you're
>>comfortable I'd stick with that.  If you're starting a new project and
>>need to get things up and running fast maven goes a long way.
>>
>>Sorry for not giving more concrete examples, also I hope my love hate
>>afair does not offend any of my good maven friends.  I'd probably be
>>complaining and loving Ant just as much if that's what I was
>>using today.
>>
>>Alex
>>    
>>
>
>Alex, thanks for this.
>
>Your experiences are almost exactly parallel to mine regarding Maven1. As
>soon as you move beyond the standard Maven patterns you find yourself
>jumping through more hoops than if you had stuck to Ant. Instead of being a
>help its a hinderance.
>
>I think this partly stems from Maven's definition of a project being
>narrower than what most development teams would define as their 'project'.
>I'm sure there are Maven gurus out there who could resolve the issues each
>development team has, but a build tool should not need gurus.
>
>  
>
Exactly!  You don't need to be a guru when it comes to ant.  It's simple
and it works.

>I was hoping that Maven2 would resolve these issues. I've no experience of
>it beyond playing. If I understand, you are suggesting its better, but not
>that much better, which is disappointing. Do you think its the Maven2 model
>which is flawed or its current implementation?
>
>  
>
Well I'm not a build tool expert but I have been swiming in the
internals of the m2 code for some time.  The architecture is pretty well
designed.  Jason really did a nice job.   I get the feeling that some of
the extremities of maven (it's plugins) are mostly at fault.  There are
implementation issues.

The model is well put together IMO.

HTH,
Alex


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