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From David Jencks <david_jen...@yahoo.com>
Subject Re: Geronimo-JAMES integration
Date Mon, 16 Jun 2008 18:07:57 GMT

On Jun 16, 2008, at 3:45 AM, Stefano Bagnara wrote:

> David Jencks ha scritto:
>> I've been hoping for a Geronimo-JAMES integration since the start  
>> of the Geronimo project.  Two fairly recent developments in JAMES  
>> have now made this a relatively simple task:  the maven build and  
>> the spring integration code.
>> [...]
>> Instructions:
>> 1. Apply patches for JAMES-840, 841, and 842 to james trunk.  Get  
>> all the jars needed for the build into the private stage repository  
>> (JAMES-840).  (I realize these instructions are unclear but they  
>> are the best I have at the moment)
> I really hope we can tweak them and apply all of them. I commented  
> each issue on JIRA.
>> 2. Build JAMES with maven
>> mvn clean install -Plocal
> If the maven build is not acceptable to our PMC another approach  
> could be to add a maven repository install script to the ant build.
> Of course I would prefer if our PMC accept that people may prefer  
> maven to build our products.
>> 3. Build geronimo trunk (I haven't checked to see if sufficiently  
>> up to date geronimo snapshots are available.  We also have some  
>> private repo issues that may make at least one local build of  
>> geronimo necessary).
> Interesting.
>> 4. check out
>> svn co https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/geronimo/plugins/james/trunk
> I see there are 3 modules for that project:
> geronimo-james/
> james/
> james-server/
> can you explain (I don't know anything about "car" module type) ?

geronimo-james has the java integration code
james builds a geronimo plugin, using that code.  When you build it  
it's installed in your local geronimo plugin repository (i.e. the  
local maven repo + listed in a geronimo metadata file).  At this point  
it's available to the geronimo plugin system, so you can add it to an  
existing server using the admin console or command line tools. or...
james-server is a minimal server assembly that has the geroniimo  
kernel, a bit of other supporting stuff, and the james plugin.
> Is there anything you think should be moved to james project instead  
> of geronimo?

It would be great if the james project wanted to take over this  
plugin, but I think we should make sure it works and is stable and  
doesn't have too many issues with deploying on different geronimo  
versions first.
>> 5. build james plugin
>> mvn clean install -Pwith-assembly
>> 6. Fire up the sample server
>> cd james-server/target
>> tar xzf james-server-1.0-SNAPSHOT-bin.tar.gz
>> ./james-server-1.0-SNAPSHOT/bin/gsh geronimo/start-server
>> I've put the james config files in a geronimo-standard location of  
>> var/james/config.  I changed the ports so the server would start  
>> without superuser permissions.  So far I just know the server  
>> starts without errors: I haven't figure out how to test if it can  
>> actually do anything.
> Cool!
> It looks like really simple!
>> -----------------------------------
>> Future directions
>> Even in its current state this plugin/integration is only viable if  
>> the JAMES community
>> - works to resolve the issues noted in JAMES-840, 841, 842
>> - continues to maintain the maven build
> +1
>> Currently there is minimal integration between geronimo and  
>> JAMES.   One really obvious integration point would be to use  
>> geroniimo supplied datasources.  However glancing at the code there  
>> appears to be a certain amount of fishing for configuration rather  
>> than dependency injection.  I'm wondering whether there is any  
>> interest in moving to JPA based database access, and whether this  
>> would be significantly harder than just changing the datasource  
>> source.  Obviously this would imply moving JAMES to java 5.
> +1
> Moving to java 5 IMHO is no more an issue: as soon as a feature will  
> require java 5 we should simply stop declaring 1.4 compatibility: I  
> don't know anyone using an 1.4 jvm at this point.
>> Another issue I came across is use of com.sun mail classes (I  
>> started by trying to use the geronimo mail provider before I  
>> understood why the stage repo wasn't working for me).  Is this  
>> intentional?  Are you interested in also supporting the geronimo  
>> mail implementation?
> It is intentional. Last time I checked it geronimo mail  
> implementation was not enough for our delivery needs. There is a lot  
> to change and we would probably stop using javamail at all, instead  
> of supporting geronimo implementation for the remote delivery task.  
> This is only my opinion, of course.

When did you look :-) ?  I think its had a lot of bugs fixed and a lot  
more stuff implemented but I haven't followed it closely.
>> Finally I came across some comments that DNS is needed (as you can  
>> probably tell I know almost nothing about mail).  I wondered if any  
>> thought had been given to using apacheds in-vm for this.
> We don't need a DNS server, just DNS lookup capabilities. We don't  
> use the JVM built-in DNS lookup mechanism because of issues in the  
> caching and expiration support. apacheds does not provide a dns  
> client library.
> At the moment the geronimo-james integration is simply a single  
> gbean for the whole james application: do you think it would be hard  
> to support 1 gbean per function? JAMES is composed by api modules,  
> library modules and function modules. functions only depends on  
> libraries and api, libraries only on apis, and api have no internal  
> dependencies.
> deployments simply aggregate functions. Is it possible to create  
> separate GBean for functions only when functions depends on shared  
> services or the only solution is to publish 1 gbean for each of our  
> services? I don't know geronimo, but it would be a great deployment  
> alternative if it allow us to undeploy 1 single function (e.g: the  
> spoolmanager), alter its configuration and redeploy it without  
> stopping the smtp/pop3 servers.
This was the original idea I had when I first looked into this  
integration several years ago.  However I don't think it will be  
practical until James adopts a more conventional IOC approach in which  
the components have their properties configured by the IOC container  
rather than through a initialize(configuration) method.  I could have  
seriously misjudged the situation however.

I have basically no idea of the internal threading structure of  
James.  Is adding and removing components reasonably possible to do in  
a thread-safe way without a large synchronization overhead?

david jencks
> Stefano

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