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From Dave Reynolds <>
Subject Re: Dont' fork the dev lists (Re: I wish to contribute a new tdb example)
Date Wed, 08 Dec 2010 16:14:59 GMT
On Wed, 2010-12-08 at 15:49 +0000, Paolo Castagna wrote: 
> Dave Reynolds wrote:
> > On Wed, 2010-12-08 at 14:38 +0000, Paolo Castagna wrote: 
> >> Andy Seaborne wrote:
> >>>
> >>> On 07/12/10 10:00, Ross Gardler wrote:
> >>>> On 06/12/2010 23:09, Andy Seaborne wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>> It's welcome. Send it to and see what
> >>>>> reaction is.
> >>>>>
> >>>> No - the corect dev list is now which
> >>>> where this proposal was sent.
> >>>> During the changeover people might want to flag important messages on
> >>>> the old list with instructions on how to join this one but do not fork
> >>>> the conversations - it will damage your community.
> >>>
> >>> Ross -
> >>>
> >>> is the user list (it's name is historic - when

> >>> Jena was small there was only one list, and that became the one all the

> >>> user questions were on so).
> >>>
> >>> As we discussed, we'll migrate the user lists but it will be a slow 
> >>> process during which we'll have two active lists for quite some time.
> >> Why will it be a slow process?
> > 
> > Because we have 3000 list members who will, or won't, switch in their
> > own time. Plus hundreds of thousands of downloaded copies of Jena whose
> > included documentation points to the existing yahoo-group. Not everyone
> > uses the most recent version and tracks the details of what is going on,
> > we will have people turning up at the yahoo group for a *long* time to
> > come.
> We can fix the documentation and clearly (and maybe 


> in advance) communicate
> the change, but other than this I don't see what else we can do.

Nothing, that's my point. The transition will take time.

> >> I would prefer the switch to be as quick as possible and not
> >> have a time where we have two active lists. Of, if we have two
> >> active list, in one (i.e. we should
> >> just say something like: this is not the correct mailing list,
> >> please, subscribe to, bla, bla.
> > 
> > First, there would need to be a clear message to everyone when the
> > switch will happen and give interested people enough time to subscribe.
> > 
> > Second, for a long time after the official switch there will not only be
> > new questions to the yahoo list but a large number of listeners who
> > haven't yet moved. Are you advocating that from the instant of switch
> > over we never answer another question on yahoo but always ask people to
> > jump through another list registration hoop before getting an answer (or
> > seeing the answer to some else's question)?
> Yes.

I would prefer a transition period where we answer in situ (copied to
apache list) and encourage moving. Though I guess I would be prepared to
accept the instant-on hard-line approach if that's the consensus. 

> This would give a strong incentive to them to migrate. ;-)

Or to drop monitoring the list and miss out on useful discussions.

> Moreover, we should invite others people who reply to move themselves as well.
> Sooner or later we want them to migrate, better sooner than later.
> > That's not the sort of helpfulness we have previously striven for.
> Same level of helpfulness will be achieved, only in a different/better (*)
> place.

The lack of helpfulness is the "move or else" response, not the
technical infrastructure of the lists which I regard as largely

>   (*) public archives, search works via Google|third party websites, ...

Current jena-dev has a public archive and is searchable via Google
(though yahoo search is more useful in this specific case) but that's
not the point.


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