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From Ross Gardler <rgard...@apache.org>
Subject Re: Dont' fork the dev lists (Re: I wish to contribute a new tdb example)
Date Thu, 09 Dec 2010 14:52:28 GMT
On 09/12/2010 14:15, Andy Seaborne wrote:
>
>
> On 09/12/10 10:46, Paolo Castagna wrote:
>> On 8 December 2010 18:10, Leo Simons<mail@leosimons.com> wrote:
>>> On Wed, Dec 8, 2010 at 2:38 PM, Paolo Castagna
>>> <castagna.lists@googlemail.com> wrote:
>>>> Andy Seaborne wrote:
>>>>> As we discussed, we'll migrate the user lists but it will be a slow
>>>>> process during which we'll have two active lists for quite some time.
>>> ...
>>>> Either we find a way to automate this (and it will be quick),
>>>> or we must tell the users to switch and it's up to them to
>>>> decide if they want to do it and when.
>>>
>>> When people post on apache mailing lists anything they post is
>>> 'automatically' Contribution to the apache software foundation (per
>>> the apache license and per the CLA [1]). This is a difference from the
>>> current jena-dev@yahoo. So auto-subscribing people in bulk is bad,
>>> since it makes them rather less aware of that difference.
>>>
>>> There's possible hairy discussions about etiquette/privacy/etc as well
>>> ("Given yahoo groups privacy policy, is it acceptable to give this set
>>> of e-mail addresses to the ASF?"), but because we have this legalese
>>> argument anyway, we don't have to go into those discussions.
>>> Convenient :)
>>
>> Good point, and another reason to do the switch as soon as possible.
>>
>> We are left with the problem of when do we tell people they should
>> switch mailing list and how persistently we tell them.
>>
>> I am in favour of "as soon as possible" and an "hard-line" approach.
>>
>> Paolo
>
> I'm not - I think we have to manage the transition so as to not
> discourage users. Users are what matter. We do have a lot of mentions of
> jena-on-yahoo in documentation and I don't want to drop people using
> older minor versions.
>
> That means continuing to answer questions sent to jena-on-yahoo. I'm
> only just coping with the email flow there at the moment so I'm hardly
> keen to generate more work but I don't feel we can just drop jena-on-yahoo.

I don't think anyone is suggesting "just dropping it". Certainly I'm 
not. I'm suggesting preventing discussion on the old lists and insisting 
people come here.

I understand your point about looking after the users, my motivation is 
the same. New users will be coming to the ASF lists and thus you will be 
forking your user engagement efforts.

The longer you delay closing off discussions on the old lists the more 
separation is created.

> So I suggest we all start mentioning the existence of the new list. We
> can see how the migration flow goes, and make a pragmatic decision as to
> what to do when we get a sense for the switch over.

Options I see

- turn off yahoo list and force people here

- reply to all new threads on the old list with a request to send to the 
ASF lists where support will be provided

- repost all ASF mails to the Yahoo list with a header informing people 
that to participate in the discussion they need to migrate to the ASF list

- set the Yahoo list to moderated posting and ask to send to ASF list

- gently nudge people to the ASF list but still provide support on the 
yahoo list

I'd recommend the second option, the first and last options are not 
really helpful in my opinion. The third option could work too, but 
involves some technical configuration.

Just my 2 cents - it's your community

Ross

-- 
rgardler@apache.org
@rgardler

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