From kafka-users-return-38-apmail-incubator-kafka-users-archive=incubator.apache.org@incubator.apache.org Wed Jul 20 18:18:36 2011 Return-Path: X-Original-To: apmail-incubator-kafka-users-archive@minotaur.apache.org Delivered-To: apmail-incubator-kafka-users-archive@minotaur.apache.org Received: from mail.apache.org (hermes.apache.org [140.211.11.3]) by minotaur.apache.org (Postfix) with SMTP id CA0877E5E for ; Wed, 20 Jul 2011 18:18:36 +0000 (UTC) Received: (qmail 9889 invoked by uid 500); 20 Jul 2011 18:18:36 -0000 Delivered-To: apmail-incubator-kafka-users-archive@incubator.apache.org Received: (qmail 9865 invoked by uid 500); 20 Jul 2011 18:18:36 -0000 Mailing-List: contact kafka-users-help@incubator.apache.org; run by ezmlm Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Post: List-Id: Reply-To: kafka-users@incubator.apache.org Delivered-To: mailing list kafka-users@incubator.apache.org Received: (qmail 9857 invoked by uid 99); 20 Jul 2011 18:18:36 -0000 Received: from athena.apache.org (HELO athena.apache.org) (140.211.11.136) by apache.org (qpsmtpd/0.29) with ESMTP; Wed, 20 Jul 2011 18:18:36 +0000 X-ASF-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.7 required=5.0 tests=FREEMAIL_FROM,RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW,SPF_PASS,T_TO_NO_BRKTS_FREEMAIL X-Spam-Check-By: apache.org Received-SPF: pass (athena.apache.org: domain of jghoman@gmail.com designates 74.125.83.175 as permitted sender) Received: from [74.125.83.175] (HELO mail-pv0-f175.google.com) (74.125.83.175) by apache.org (qpsmtpd/0.29) with ESMTP; Wed, 20 Jul 2011 18:18:30 +0000 Received: by pvf24 with SMTP id 24so417484pvf.6 for ; Wed, 20 Jul 2011 11:18:10 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=vFewZquC0cPE0NxwJtMsl0FNyc1nIR14PDpTbnYBqNI=; b=xPQTPTV2mgqH2Px8KZkJiwUDfE1I9BlEiK6Pg+qdhC0FJikRvYbMEMLAnI7Iv3D0Pw ohAAc0uh9gr+bmoVfnf5t9+ZDVtrQoQlz2iUQ4PzTyrC3OGb1jMEIzjN/yfmBZRYWhY1 8ootJvD2FSmeISr8bBO7EG0Rll1dbNdhM2mhQ= Received: by 10.68.17.135 with SMTP id o7mr10981848pbd.272.1311185890246; Wed, 20 Jul 2011 11:18:10 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.143.58.11 with HTTP; Wed, 20 Jul 2011 11:17:40 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <061FD91D-F9E9-4691-BB18-9763452BA7D3@toolazydogs.com> References: <564A66E0-CCCC-47F3-A823-569E0A30EE03@toolazydogs.com> <2C1E4FB6-DCEA-49B0-B3E5-B012005FE7E4@toolazydogs.com> <79370791-9EEC-4DA5-812D-5503E71D0240@toolazydogs.com> <061FD91D-F9E9-4691-BB18-9763452BA7D3@toolazydogs.com> From: Jakob Homan Date: Wed, 20 Jul 2011 11:17:40 -0700 Message-ID: Subject: Re: Kafka questions To: kafka-users@incubator.apache.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I'm not meaning to push back; just curious as to the drawbacks of PDFs versus wikis. I was surprised to see PDF-backed design docs described as "very bad" when I've seen this approach work well in multiple projects (e.g. HDFS-265, MAPREDUCE-326, HBASE-3857, ZOOKEEPER-1016, BOOKKEEPER-11, HDFS-1073, HIVE-1555). Posting PDFs and the change-driver incorporating feedback until consensus emerges seems like a more natural counterpart to our SOP of posting patches and the coder incorporating feedback until +1 is given. -jg On Wed, Jul 20, 2011 at 10:41 AM, Alan D. Cabrera wr= ote: > Yeah, that's the point of a wiki, sharing. =A0One person should not own a= design doc. =A0Frankly, I don't understand the push back for such a simple= document. > > > Regards, > Alan > > > On Jul 20, 2011, at 10:34 AM, Jakob Homan wrote: > >> Doesn't need to be, but could be. =A0It's usually up to the person >> proposing the change/driving the discussion to create new versions of >> the PDF. =A0In my experience, when people attached the Word doc, others >> would complain that they didn't have Word, and when people attached, >> e.g., the laTex document people would have complain they didn't know >> ancient Egyptian... >> -jg >> >> On Wed, Jul 20, 2011 at 10:19 AM, Alan D. Cabrera = wrote: >>> Are you saying that the source document for the PDF is also attached to= the issue? =A0I don't see it in KAFKA-50. >>> >>> >>> Regards, >>> Alan >>> >>> On Jul 20, 2011, at 10:11 AM, Jakob Homan wrote: >>> >>>> I don't have anything against wikis - they're great for information >>>> that changes more frequently than releases are made and should be >>>> user-facing (configuration, FAQs, etc). >>>> >>>> For large technical changes, like the one currently being propsosed, >>>> the PDF isn't static, but will have several versions posted. =A0The >>>> whole discussion is: PDF version 0, then comments on that PDF, then >>>> PDFv1, then more discussions until eventually the discussion turns >>>> into +1s and the final version of the PDF is attached. =A0The JIRA doe= s >>>> a good job of chronicling the discussion that wiki change logs >>>> doesn't. =A0JIRA just seems like a more natural forum to spur >>>> discussion. >>>> >>>> Also, having the person driving the change updating the document tends >>>> to keep the discussion on track and making progress. >>>> >>>> Finally, new or less senior members of the community may be reluctant >>>> to edit a semi-official project document like a wiki, but hopefully >>>> will be willing to join in the discussion on JIRA. >>>> -jg >>>> >>>> >>>> On Wed, Jul 20, 2011 at 9:56 AM, Alan D. Cabrera wrote: >>>>> >>>>> On Jul 20, 2011, at 9:51 AM, Jakob Homan wrote: >>>>> >>>>>>>> and then just comment and iterate over there. Is that not the pref= erred way? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> No, that's very bad. =A0There's no way that others can participate = and modify the design. >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> How so? =A0The documentation is online and the discussion is online = and >>>>>> recorded for posterity. The only barrier to entry to the discussion = is >>>>>> setting up a JIRA account. >>>>> >>>>> The design document should be open to the community to edit. =A0Not a= frozen PDF document. =A0I'll turn the question around. =A0What problem do = you see storing the document in a wiki format? >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Regards, >>>>> Alan >>>>> >>>>> >>> >>> > >