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From "Thakrar, Jayesh" <jthak...@conversantmedia.com>
Subject Re: Kafka Setup for Daily counts on wide array of keys
Date Mon, 05 Mar 2018 17:07:09 GMT
Good luck on your test!

As for the batching within Avro and by Kafka Producer, here are my thoughts without any empirical
proof.
There is a certain amount of overhead in terms of execution AND bytes in converting a request
record into Avro and producing (generating) a Kafka message out of it.
For requests of size 100-200 bytes, that can be a substantial amount - especially the fact
that you will be bundling the Avro schema for each request in its Kafka message.

By batching the requests, you are significantly amortizing that overhead across many rows.

From: Matt Daum <matt@setfive.com>
Date: Monday, March 5, 2018 at 5:54 AM
To: "Thakrar, Jayesh" <jthakrar@conversantmedia.com>
Cc: "users@kafka.apache.org" <users@kafka.apache.org>
Subject: Re: Kafka Setup for Daily counts on wide array of keys

Thanks for the suggestions!  It does look like it's using local RocksDB stores for the state
info by default.  Will look into using an external one.

As for the "millions of different values per grouped attribute" an example would be assume
on each requests there is a parameters "X" which at the end of each day I want to know the
counts per unique value, it could have 100's of millions of possible values.

I'll start to hopefully work this week on an initial test of everything and will report back.
 A few last questions if you have the time:
- For the batching of the AVRO files, would this be different than the Producer batching?
- Any other things you'd suggest looking out for as gotcha's or configurations that probably
will be good to tweak further?

Thanks!
Matt

On Sun, Mar 4, 2018 at 11:23 PM, Thakrar, Jayesh <jthakrar@conversantmedia.com<mailto:jthakrar@conversantmedia.com>>
wrote:
BTW - I did not mean to rule-out Aerospike as a possible datastore.
Its just that I am not familiar with it, but surely looks like a good candidate to store the
raw and/or aggregated data, given that it also has a Kafka Connect module.

From: "Thakrar, Jayesh" <jthakrar@conversantmedia.com<mailto:jthakrar@conversantmedia.com>>
Date: Sunday, March 4, 2018 at 9:25 PM
To: Matt Daum <matt@setfive.com<mailto:matt@setfive.com>>

Cc: "users@kafka.apache.org<mailto:users@kafka.apache.org>" <users@kafka.apache.org<mailto:users@kafka.apache.org>>
Subject: Re: Kafka Setup for Daily counts on wide array of keys

I don’t have any experience/knowledge on the Kafka inbuilt datastore, but believe thatfor
some
portions of streaming Kafka uses (used?) RocksDB to locally store some state info in the brokers.

Personally  I would use an external datastore.
There's a wide choice out there - regular key-value stores like Cassandra, ScyllaDB, RocksDB,
timeseries key-value stores like InfluxDB to regular RDBMSes.
If you have hadoop in the picture, its even possible to bypass a datastore completely (if
appropriate) and store the raw data on HDFS organized by (say) date+hour
by using periodic (minute to hourly) extract jobs and store data in hive-compatible directory
structure using ORC or Parquet.

The reason for shying away from NoSQL datastores is their tendency to do compaction on data
which leads to unnecessary reads and writes (referred to as write-amplification).
With periodic jobs in Hadoop, you (usually) write your data once only. Ofcourse with that
approach you loose the "random/keyed access" to the data,
but if you are only interested in the aggregations across various dimensions, those can be
stored in a SQL/NoSQL datastore.

As for "having millions of different values per grouped attribute" - not sure what you mean
by them.
Is it that each record has some fields that represent different kinds of attributes and that
their domain can have millions to hundreds of millions of values?
I don't think that should matter.

From: Matt Daum <matt@setfive.com<mailto:matt@setfive.com>>
Date: Sunday, March 4, 2018 at 2:39 PM
To: "Thakrar, Jayesh" <jthakrar@conversantmedia.com<mailto:jthakrar@conversantmedia.com>>
Cc: "users@kafka.apache.org<mailto:users@kafka.apache.org>" <users@kafka.apache.org<mailto:users@kafka.apache.org>>
Subject: Re: Kafka Setup for Daily counts on wide array of keys

Thanks! For the counts I'd need to use a global table to make sure it's across all the data
right?   Also having millions of different values per grouped attribute will scale ok?

On Mar 4, 2018 8:45 AM, "Thakrar, Jayesh" <jthakrar@conversantmedia.com<mailto:jthakrar@conversantmedia.com>>
wrote:
Yes, that's the general design pattern. Another thing to look into is to compress the data.
Now Kafka consumer/producer can already do it for you, but we choose to compress in the applications
due to a historic issue that drgraded performance,  although it has been resolved now.
Also,  just keep in mind that while you do your batching, kafka producer also tries to batch
msgs to Kafka, and you will need to ensure you have enough buffer memory. However that's all
configurable.
Finally ensure you have the latest java updates and have kafka 0.10.2 or higher.
Jayesh

________________________________
From: Matt Daum <matt@setfive.com<mailto:matt@setfive.com>>
Sent: Sunday, March 4, 2018 7:06:19 AM
To: Thakrar, Jayesh
Cc: users@kafka.apache.org<mailto:users@kafka.apache.org>
Subject: Re: Kafka Setup for Daily counts on wide array of keys

We actually don't have a kafka cluster setup yet at all.  Right now just have 8 of our application
servers.  We currently sample some impressions and then dedupe/count outside at a different
DC, but are looking to try to analyze all impressions for some overall analytics.

Our requests are around 100-200 bytes each.  If we lost some of them due to network jitter
etc. it would be fine we're trying to just get overall a rough count of each attribute.  Creating
batched messages definitely makes sense and will also cut down on the network IO.

We're trying to determine the required setup for Kafka to do what we're looking to do as these
are physical servers so we'll most likely need to buy new hardware.  For the first run I think
we'll try it out on one of our application clusters that get a smaller amount traffic (300-400k
req/sec) and run the kafka cluster on the same machines as the applications.

So would the best route here be something like each application server batches requests, send
it to kafka, have a stream consumer that then tallies up the totals per attribute that we
want to track, output that to a new topic, which then goes to a sink to either a DB or something
like S3 which then we read into our external DBs?

Thanks!

On Sun, Mar 4, 2018 at 12:31 AM, Thakrar, Jayesh <jthakrar@conversantmedia.com<mailto:jthakrar@conversantmedia.com>>
wrote:
Matt,

If I understand correctly, you have an 8 node Kafka cluster and need to support  about 1 million
requests/sec into the cluster from source servers and expect to consume that for aggregation.

How big are your msgs?

I would suggest looking into batching multiple requests per single Kafka msg to achieve desired
throughput.

So e.g. on the request receiving systems, I would suggest creating a logical avro file (byte
buffer) of say N requests and then making that into one Kafka msg payload.

We have a similar situation (https://www.slideshare.net/JayeshThakrar/apacheconflumekafka2016)
and found anything from 4x to 10x better throughput with batching as compared to one request
per msg.
We have different kinds of msgs/topics and the individual "request" size varies from  about
100 bytes to 1+ KB.

On 3/2/18, 8:24 AM, "Matt Daum" <matt@setfive.com<mailto:matt@setfive.com>> wrote:

    I am new to Kafka but I think I have a good use case for it.  I am trying
    to build daily counts of requests based on a number of different attributes
    in a high throughput system (~1 million requests/sec. across all  8
    servers).  The different attributes are unbounded in terms of values, and
    some will spread across 100's of millions values.  This is my current
    through process, let me know where I could be more efficient or if there is
    a better way to do it.

    I'll create an AVRO object "Impression" which has all the attributes of the
    inbound request.  My application servers then will on each request create
    and send this to a single kafka topic.

    I'll then have a consumer which creates a stream from the topic.  From
    there I'll use the windowed timeframes and groupBy to group by the
    attributes on each given day.  At the end of the day I'd need to read out
    the data store to an external system for storage.  Since I won't know all
    the values I'd need something similar to the KVStore.all() but for
    WindowedKV Stores.  This appears that it'd be possible in 1.1 with this
    commit:
    https://github.com/apache/kafka/commit/1d1c8575961bf6bce7decb049be7f10ca76bd0c5
    .

    Is this the best approach to doing this?  Or would I be better using the
    stream to listen and then an external DB like Aerospike to store the counts
    and read out of it directly end of day.

    Thanks for the help!
    Daum



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