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From Guillaume Nodet <gno...@gmail.com>
Subject Re: Size of karaf distributions
Date Tue, 03 Jan 2012 13:40:14 GMT
Agreed, just the console and basic commands could be enough I suppose.
I think removing the console would make things more difficult as users
won't be able to install additional features easily.

On Tue, Jan 3, 2012 at 14:30, Jamie G. <jamie.goodyear@gmail.com> wrote:
> Sounds good Christian.
>
> Back to the larger theme, we appear to be making head way in reducing
> the overall size of the distribution with the Aether issue reviewed
> above, now to reducing convenience features in Karaf to make it
> 'minimal'...
>
> The goal here would be to define the lowest possible set of features
> to make Karaf useful, but very feature bare?
>
> In this case removing diagnostics, management, some deployer support,
> and possibly even JAAS or instance admin could be considered. We could
> go as far to reduce logging support as well. How bare bones a
> distribution can we design while still being useful enough to not
> cause heavy frustration (if everyone has to immediately add back a
> particular feature then we should probably not remove it).
>
> Cheers,
> Jamie
>
> On Tue, Jan 3, 2012 at 9:44 AM, Christian Schneider
> <chris@die-schneider.net> wrote:
>> Especially for 2.x I can remove it. Currently I only use it to convert from
>> maven coords to artifact. That probably will also make it easier to use the
>> same code on karaf 3. So we could simply wait till aether finishes the move
>> to eclipse and offers bundles.
>>
>> Christian
>>
>>
>> Am 03.01.2012 13:59, schrieb Guillaume Nodet:
>>
>>> Well, I'm not convinced that adding 3 Mb to the base distribution just
>>> for a completer is really worth it, especially in the stable 2.x
>>> branch.
>>>
>>> On Tue, Jan 3, 2012 at 13:56, Christian Schneider
>>> <chris@die-schneider.net>  wrote:
>>>>
>>>> I just filed an issue with the aether project to provide bundles and will
>>>> help to resolve this.
>>>>
>>>> Currently I am using aether in the 2.2.x branch already. But just
>>>> internally
>>>> and could remove it if we decide to not depend on it. I will
>>>> also provide the code for the trunk in karaf but di not get it working
>>>> till
>>>> now so I did not yet commit.
>>>>
>>>> Christian
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Am 03.01.2012 13:48, schrieb Guillaume Nodet:
>>>>
>>>>> Looking at the code, we use org.ops4j.pax.url.maven.commons package,
>>>>> but not really aether.
>>>>> So it may be possible to embed only the packages needed and not the
>>>>> full aether api.
>>>>>
>>>>> Alternatively, if we really need aether, it may be better to install
>>>>> it as a real bundle and have it shared by pax-url-aether and the dev
>>>>> commands.
>>>>>
>>>>> On Mon, Jan 2, 2012 at 20:25, Christian Schneider
>>>>> <chris@die-schneider.net>    wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The pax url dep came from me.  I wanted to discuss this anyway.
For
>>>>>> what
>>>>>> I
>>>>>> do right now pax url aether is not absolutely necessary. So I could
>>>>>> replace
>>>>>> that with some own code. On the other hand it may be interesting
to
>>>>>> provide
>>>>>> services in pax based on the aether api like get available versions
of
>>>>>> artifact. Perhaps even browse maven repos with some extensions. This
>>>>>> would
>>>>>> allow content assist for mvn urls.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> So what do you guys think. Do we plan to use aether more or should
we
>>>>>> get
>>>>>> rid of it again?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Christian
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Am 02.01.2012 19:16, schrieb Jamie G.:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Running a quick diff on minimal and standard kits the largest
>>>>>>> difference appears to be that the standard distribution includes
demos
>>>>>>> and a few extra jars in the system folder.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> org.apache.karaf.region.commands-3.0.0-SNAPSHOT.jar ->  
   23K
>>>>>>> org.apache.karaf.shell.config-3.0.0-SNAPSHOT.jar ->    
 43K
>>>>>>> org.apache.karaf.shell.services-3.0.0-SNAPSHOT.jar ->    
 25K
>>>>>>> org.apache.karaf.shell.ssh-3.0.0-SNAPSHOT.jar ->      38K
>>>>>>> mina-core-2.0.3.jar ->      630K
>>>>>>> sshd-core-0.6.0.jar ->      320K
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> When the above is removed then this accounts for the 1Mb reduction
in
>>>>>>> size to become 'minimal'.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Looking at the largest jars in the system folder we have:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> 2.3M org.apache.karaf.shell.dev-3.0.0-SNAPSHOT.jar
>>>>>>> 1.3M osgi-3.7.1.R37x_v20110808-1106.jar
>>>>>>> 2.5M pax-url-aether-1.3.5.jar
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> All other jars are under a Mb, the largest of which are:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> 367K org.apache.aries.blueprint.core-0.4.1-SNAPSHOT.jar
>>>>>>> 120K org.apache.aries.jmx-0.3.jar
>>>>>>> 104K org.apache.aries.util-0.5-SNAPSHOT.jar
>>>>>>> 206K commons-jexl-2.0.jar
>>>>>>> 470K org.apache.felix.framework-4.0.2.jar
>>>>>>> 379K org.apache.karaf.shell.console-3.0.0-SNAPSHOT.jar
>>>>>>> 630K mina-core-2.0.3.jar (Already cut from minimal)
>>>>>>> 213K org.apache.servicemix.bundles.asm-3.3_2.jar
>>>>>>> 320K sshd-core-0.6.0.jar (Already cut from minimal)
>>>>>>> 529K pax-logging-service-1.6.3.jar
>>>>>>> 332K pax-url-wrap-1.3.5.jar
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Out of all the above jars I have to wonder why o.a.k.shell.dev
is
>>>>>>> 2.3Mb in size, it's the second largest artifact in the kit.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Cheesr,
>>>>>>> Jamie
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Mon, Jan 2, 2012 at 2:17 PM, Jean-Baptiste Onofré<jb@nanthrax.net>
>>>>>>>  wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Hi Guillaume,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I noticed that also, but I didn't find time to investigate
why.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I will take a look tonight to make a diff between distributions.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Thanks !!
>>>>>>>> Regards
>>>>>>>> JB
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 01/02/2012 06:17 PM, Guillaume Nodet wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> The size of the karaf distribution has doubled between
2.x and 3.x.
>>>>>>>>> It's now roughly 10 Mb.
>>>>>>>>> Is that really worth the new features that are now embedded
by
>>>>>>>>> default
>>>>>>>>> ?
>>>>>>>>> I think at least the minimal distribution should be much
lighter ...
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>> Jean-Baptiste Onofré
>>>>>>>> jbonofre@apache.org
>>>>>>>> http://blog.nanthrax.net
>>>>>>>> Talend - http://www.talend.com
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Christian Schneider
>>>>>> http://www.liquid-reality.de
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Open Source Architect
>>>>>> Talend Application Integration Division http://www.talend.com
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Christian Schneider
>>>> http://www.liquid-reality.de
>>>>
>>>> Open Source Architect
>>>> Talend Application Integration Division http://www.talend.com
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Christian Schneider
>> http://www.liquid-reality.de
>>
>> Open Source Architect
>> Talend Application Integration Division http://www.talend.com
>>



-- 
------------------------
Guillaume Nodet
------------------------
Blog: http://gnodet.blogspot.com/
------------------------
Open Source SOA
http://fusesource.com

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