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From Scott England-Sullivan <sully6...@gmail.com>
Subject Re: Apache Karaf 2.3.0 very close
Date Tue, 09 Oct 2012 14:17:20 GMT
It seems like feature definitions are at a point to where they are evolving at a different
pace than the Karaf core.  Specifically WRT 3rd party APIs. 

Would it be possible/make sense to create a separate project that individuals could contribute
new or updated feature definitions?

A similar model as the PAX composite or profile repository.

Taking it a step further, if the Karaf core project could be decoupled from the feature definitions
it might be possible to offer a more current feature set without cutting a new Karaf release.

Thoughts?


On Oct 9, 2012, at 8:08 AM, Claus Ibsen <claus.ibsen@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Tue, Oct 9, 2012 at 12:48 PM, Jamie G. <jamie.goodyear@gmail.com> wrote:
>> My understanding that the spring31 feature would be an optional part
>> of Karaf 2.3.
>> 
>> As to Karaf 2.4 - other than spring 3.1 i think we need to start a
>> separate thread to discuss that particular branch's major changes.
>> Please note, we've added a 2.4.0 version to Jira so that issues for
>> that future release can be recorded.
> 
> I am not sure it must require a new 2.4.0 release soo soon for end
> user to be able to use Spring 3.1 with Karaf.
> Its a fairly minor upgrade as Spring Framework have excellent compatibility.
> 
> And IMHO it would be a confusing message to send to the Karaf
> community, that after having 9 patch releases on 2.2.x
> We cut a 2.3.0, and then just 4-6 weeks later cut a 2.4.0. Then people
> may think that the 2.3.0 release is severely damaged since a 2.4.0
> came out so soon.
> 
> 
> I would like using Spring 3.1 in earlier releases such as the 2.3.0 onwards.
> And if the Karaf team made it fairly easy to upgrade, and had official
> documentation to do so.
> eg so ppl can see its "officially" supported etc.
> 
> It may be adjusting some configuration file, or copy some file like
> the cxf jre properties file etc.
> 
> 
> 
> Spring 3.2 is likely coming out later this year they are cutting their
> RC1 in the near future.
> And some other Spring projects now requires Spring 3.1 onwards such as
> Spring Integration, Spring WebServices etc.
> 
> 
> Anyway keep up the good work.
> 
> Just make sure its easier to upgrade Jetty and Spring in the
> container, that would be my preference.
> And by easier I mean it could just be some FAQ / doc page showing how
> to do it etc.
> And it would be nice with some unit tests for that as well. So Karaf
> is tested a bit with Spring 3.1 etc.
> 
> 
>> Cheers,
>> Jamie
>> 
>> On Tue, Oct 9, 2012 at 8:12 AM, Christian Müller
>> <christian.mueller@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> I share most/all of the opinions.
>>> 
>>> My additional 0,02$:
>>> - If we have to release Karaf 2.3.0 today or in the next days, may be it's
>>> safer to postpone the spring31 feature for Karaf 2.4.0/3.0.0. In this case,
>>> Karaf 2.4.0 should be released in the next 2 - 5 weeks.
>>> - If we can postpone Karaf 2.3.0 for 4 - 14 days, it would be great to
>>> provide the spring31 feature in Karaf 2.3.0.
>>> 
>>> Best,
>>> Christian
>>> 
>>> On Tue, Oct 9, 2012 at 11:19 AM, Jamie G. <jamie.goodyear@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>>> The dependencies table Achim was mentioning:
>>>> 
>>>> http://karaf.apache.org/index/documentation/karaf-dependencies/karaf-deps-2.2.x.html
>>>> 
>>>> On Tue, Oct 9, 2012 at 5:12 AM, Guillaume Nodet <gnodet@gmail.com>
wrote:
>>>>> Fwiw, mina 2.0.7 is now available, so i'll update 2.3.x branch to it,
>>>>> unless someone has already done it.
>>>>> 
>>>>> On Tue, Oct 9, 2012 at 9:23 AM, Achim Nierbeck <bcanhome@googlemail.com
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>>> I think a valid "workaround" would be to offer a spring31 feature,
I'm
>>>>>> quite sure
>>>>>> we're able to extract that kind of feature from trunk ;)
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> regarding the road-map proposal, yes this would be really helpful.
>>>>>> I know we have a Matrix showing which version does contain which
>>>>>> dependencies (@Jamie where is it located?)
>>>>>> but somehow it's again a pain to find it.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> I think we need to redo our webpage desperately since not all
>>>>>> information can be found easily and the menu
>>>>>> doesn't necessarily relate to the content (e.g. the manual)
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> regards, Achim
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 2012/10/9 Charles Moulliard <ch007m@gmail.com>:
>>>>>>> Even if I understand the karaf position I completely agree about
>>>> Claus's
>>>>>>> remark to also have Spring 3.1 for Camel and others projects.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> What I would like to propose is that we create for Karaf/ServiceMix
>>>>>>> projects a page containing a table of the different software
used and
>>>>>> have
>>>>>>> a roadmap about them. This question is important not only for
Spring
>>>>>>> framework but also Pax, Aries, Felix, ... which are (re)packaged
into
>>>>>>> Karaf/ServiceMix
>>>>>>> This will avoid that we discover a few days before the publication
of
>>>> a
>>>>>>> release that we have miss something
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Just my 5€ cents.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> On Tue, Oct 9, 2012 at 8:19 AM, Claus Ibsen <claus.ibsen@gmail.com>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> On Mon, Oct 8, 2012 at 7:30 PM, Daniel Kulp <dkulp@apache.org>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> On Oct 8, 2012, at 1:08 PM, Jean-Baptiste Onofré <jb@nanthrax.net>
>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> Agree Claus, but Camel is not the only application
running on
>>>> Karaf.
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> So, we have to think about "others projects" as well.
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> I have no problem to upgrade to Spring 3.1.x but
later (why not
>>>>>> imagine
>>>>>>>> a Karaf 2.4.x for that, it could be a good indicator), and
propose
>>>> both
>>>>>>>> Spring 3.0 and 3.1 in Karaf 2.3.0 (depending of the impact,
that I
>>>> gonna
>>>>>>>> test tonight).
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> I agree with that.    I know CXF has had very little
testing with
>>>>>> Spring
>>>>>>>> 3.1.x.    I would definitely prefer keeping on 3.0.7 for
Karaf 2.3
>>>> and
>>>>>>>> think about that for 2.4.
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> I also agree that this is way to close to "release" to
flip out a
>>>>>> major
>>>>>>>> component like spring.   Maybe a month ago, but not now.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Yeah I can understand the deadline issue as well.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> But its a shame that the new shiny Karaf 2.3.0 comes out
of the box
>>>>>>>> with the old Spring 3.0.7 from Dec 2011. And there has not
been any
>>>>>>>> new releases of Spring 3.0.x since.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> It would be cool if it was possible to provide an easy way
for people
>>>>>>>> to switch Karaf to offer Spring 3.1.
>>>>>>>> Maybe that requires to offer a spring31 feature, and an easy
way for
>>>>>>>> people to configure Karaf to use that.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> At Camel we have a CI job that tests Camel with Spring 3.1.
The
>>>>>>>> upgrade for Camel has been painless.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Dan
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> Regards
>>>>>>>>>> JB
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> On 10/08/2012 06:48 PM, Claus Ibsen wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Oct 8, 2012 at 6:44 PM, Jean-Baptiste
Onofré <
>>>>>> jb@nanthrax.net>
>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> Camel 2.10.x uses Spring 3.0.7 for now, for
we are "aligned"
>>>> with
>>>>>>>> Camel
>>>>>>>>>>>> 2.10.
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> Does it make sense to update to Spring 3.1.x
(for future Camel
>>>>>> version
>>>>>>>>>>>> maybe) ?
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> Well Camel 2.10 supports both Spring 3.0.x and
3.1.x. And we are
>>>>>>>>>>> frankly only holding back because of Karaf.
>>>>>>>>>>> As when people deploy Camel in Karaf they inherit
the spring from
>>>>>>>> Karaf.
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> People in the community would like to use Spring
3.1.x as its
>>>> been
>>>>>> out
>>>>>>>>>>> since December 2011.
>>>>>>>>>>> And its the stable release path where they cut
new releases.
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> Regards
>>>>>>>>>>>> JB
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> On 10/08/2012 05:55 PM, Claus Ibsen wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Oct 8, 2012 at 5:45 PM, Jamie
G. <
>>>>>> jamie.goodyear@gmail.com>
>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi Claus,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> From the Karaf 2.3.0 pom file:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <spring.osgi.version>1.2.1</spring.osgi.version>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <spring2.version>2.5.6.SEC03</spring2.version>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <spring.version>3.0.7.RELEASE</spring.version>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Crap I think you guys shoulder consider
switching to the 3.1.2
>>>>>>>> release
>>>>>>>>>>>>> of Spring.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> As well Jetty 7.6.7, so people have the
latest stable release
>>>> of
>>>>>>>> these
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 2 important pieces.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Jamie
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Oct 8, 2012 at 1:09 PM, Claus
Ibsen <
>>>>>> claus.ibsen@gmail.com>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> What Spring version does Karaf
2.3.0 come with out of the
>>>> box?
>>>>>>>> 3.0.x
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> or the newer 3.1.x ?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Oct 8, 2012 at 10:53
AM, Jamie G. <
>>>>>>>> jamie.goodyear@gmail.com>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I'm always ready!
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Jamie
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Oct 8, 2012 at 5:08
AM, jb@nanthrax.net <
>>>>>> jb@nanthrax.net>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Great, thanks a lot !
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Jean-Baptiste Onofré
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> jbonofre@apache.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://blog.nanthrax.net
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Talend - http://wwx.talend.com
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ----- Reply message -----
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> From: "Andreas Pieber"
<anpieber@gmail.com>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To: <dev@karaf.apache.org>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Apache Karaf
2.3.0 very close
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Date: Mon, Oct 8, 2012
9:17 am
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hey,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Oct 8, 2012 at
7:46 AM, Jean-Baptiste Onofré <
>>>>>>>> jb@nanthrax.net>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> @Andreas, could you
take a look on KARAF-1878 and
>>>> KARAF-1752
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (assigned to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you) ? If you are
busy today, I think we can postpone to
>>>>>> 2.3.1.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I wanted to keep KARAF-1878
opened for review till tonight;
>>>>>> I'll
>>>>>>>> apply
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> afterwards. I'll also
apply KARAF-1752 then.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Kind regards,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Andreas
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks all guys,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Regards
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> JB
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Jean-Baptiste Onofré
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> jbonofre@apache.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://blog.nanthrax.net
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Talend - http://www.talend.com
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Claus Ibsen
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -----------------
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Red Hat, Inc.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> FuseSource is now part of Red
Hat
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Email: cibsen@redhat.com
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Web: http://fusesource.com
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Twitter: davsclaus
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Blog: http://davsclaus.com
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Author of Camel in Action: http://www.manning.com/ibsen
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>>> Jean-Baptiste Onofré
>>>>>>>>>>>> jbonofre@apache.org
>>>>>>>>>>>> http://blog.nanthrax.net
>>>>>>>>>>>> Talend - http://www.talend.com
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>> Jean-Baptiste Onofré
>>>>>>>>>> jbonofre@apache.org
>>>>>>>>>> http://blog.nanthrax.net
>>>>>>>>>> Talend - http://www.talend.com
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>> Daniel Kulp
>>>>>>>>> dkulp@apache.org - http://dankulp.com/blog
>>>>>>>>> Talend Community Coder - http://coders.talend.com
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>> Claus Ibsen
>>>>>>>> -----------------
>>>>>>>> Red Hat, Inc.
>>>>>>>> FuseSource is now part of Red Hat
>>>>>>>> Email: cibsen@redhat.com
>>>>>>>> Web: http://fusesource.com
>>>>>>>> Twitter: davsclaus
>>>>>>>> Blog: http://davsclaus.com
>>>>>>>> Author of Camel in Action: http://www.manning.com/ibsen
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>> Charles Moulliard
>>>>>>> Apache Committer / Sr. Enterprise Architect (RedHat)
>>>>>>> Twitter : @cmoulliard | Blog : http://cmoulliard.blogspot.com
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Apache Karaf <http://karaf.apache.org/> Committer & PMC
>>>>>> OPS4J Pax Web <http://wiki.ops4j.org/display/paxweb/Pax+Web/>
>>>>>> Committer & Project Lead
>>>>>> OPS4J Pax for Vaadin
>>>>>> <http://team.ops4j.org/wiki/display/PAXVAADIN/Home> Commiter
& Project
>>>>>> Lead
>>>>>> blog <http://notizblog.nierbeck.de/>
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> --
>>>>> ------------------------
>>>>> Guillaume Nodet
>>>>> ------------------------
>>>>> Blog: http://gnodet.blogspot.com/
>>>>> ------------------------
>>>>> FuseSource, Integration everywhere
>>>>> http://fusesource.com
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> --
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> Claus Ibsen
> -----------------
> Red Hat, Inc.
> FuseSource is now part of Red Hat
> Email: cibsen@redhat.com
> Web: http://fusesource.com
> Twitter: davsclaus
> Blog: http://davsclaus.com
> Author of Camel in Action: http://www.manning.com/ibsen

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