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From Jean-Baptiste Onofré ...@nanthrax.net>
Subject Re: [DISCUSSION] Karaf Boot
Date Sat, 12 Sep 2015 18:52:20 GMT
Documentation is always good, but more than reading the documentation, 
people may want something ready to go with minimal documentation.

I'm working on huge refactoring of Karaf developer guide, providing 
documentation about scr/ds, cdi, jpa, jta, etc. It's time consuming but 
a must have. So it means users will spend so much time just to 
mimic/duplication what's describe in the documentation, ready a long 
long one.

The goal is to simplify the artifact with minimal documentation.

For me, it's different approach: something easy and quick, on the other 
hand detailed documentation for advanced users.

Regards
JB

On 09/12/2015 07:51 PM, garyhodgson wrote:
> Hi JB,
>
> A set of BoMs and archetypes, together with the corresponding
> documentation, would certainly be a great benefit to the project.
> Particularly if, in the process, it helps resolve outstanding issues such
> as missing profile documentation, the karaf:run functionality, the
> developer documentation, etc.  My fear is that the talk of mimicking
> spring-boot, with @jpa annotations and such, would turn into a time and
> resource black hole.
>
> To your statement: "I bet your spent lot of time and efforts on choosing
> the right programming model, setup your modules, etc." - this is correct to
> some extent, but largely due to incomplete documentation about the plethora
> of options available.  The Enterprise sections of the user guide is
> woefully inadequate in this regard.  In these cases a Bom or Archetype
> would give another useful example, but it wouldn't take the place of some
> well written, and well-maintained documentation about the various
> technologies available.  Case in point, it was Christian's blog posts that
> mainly got me up to speed with JPA etc.
>
> Regards,
> Gary
>
> On 12 September 2015 at 18:22, jbonofre [via Karaf] <
> ml-node+s922171n4042537h93@n3.nabble.com> wrote:
>
>> Hi Gary,
>>
>> Your point about the Jira is fair, but this remark applies to any
>> project. My point is that unfortunately, all our efforts are nothing if
>> we don't provide tooling for developer users. It's really frustrating to
>> get feedback like "Karaf is awesome, but I prefer other (like
>> spring-boot) just because is simpler to start with".
>>
>> My goal is not the Karaf starter/bootstrapper first (by the way, I
>> already have karaf:run ready on one of my branches), it's first a set of
>> BoM, samples and documentation to quickly start "key turn" artifacts.
>> Actually, part of karaf-boot came when I work (and still working ;)) on
>> the Karaf developer guide.
>>
>> I bet your spent lot of time and efforts on choosing the right
>> programming model, setup your modules, etc. That's my concern: it can be
>> long and sometime complex.
>>
>> Regards
>> JB
>>
>> On 09/12/2015 02:23 PM, garyhodgson wrote:
>>
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> I thought I would add briefly to the discussion my opinion as a relative
>>> newcomer to OSGi and Karaf, who is evaluating introducing it as part of
>> our
>>> architecture at $WORK.
>>>
>>> Whilst I can see the attraction of working on some kind of karaf-boot
>>> offering, my concern is that it would take resources away from other
>> less
>>> exciting, yet more important, tasks such as documentation, ensuring
>>> stability and bug fixing.
>>>
>>> Although it's probably not a popular opinion, I would say that working
>>> through some of the (currently) 559 unresolved issues in Jira should
>> take
>>> priority over any new endeavour.
>>>
>>> The flexible nature of OSGi and Karaf means that any karaf-boot solution
>>> would have to be either (a) very opinionated as to what technologies to
>> use
>>> (DS, BP, etc), and therefore have a narrow target audience; or (b)
>> highly
>>> configurable and consequently almost as complex as implementing a
>> solution
>>> from scratch (I think OSGiliath exhibits this trend to some extent).
>>>
>>> To introduce Karaf, et al at $WORK, I have ended up creating a
>> multi-module
>>> Maven project with a features module, a custom Karaf module, a business
>>> module with CDI/JPA etc. All of which can be made running quite easily
>> (and
>>> could be further enhanced by creating a "karaf:run" type command,which
>>> sounds like what "karaf-boot-starter" is expected to do.).  Having a
>> "quick
>>> start" archetype which sets this up would of course be useful,
>> particularly
>>> for those beginning with Karaf, but any realistic project will soon have
>> to
>>> change or replace parts to suit their own requirements.  In my opinion,
>>> having more documentation would provide more value, quicker.
>>>
>>> Best regards,
>>> Gary
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> View this message in context:
>> http://karaf.922171.n3.nabble.com/DISCUSSION-Karaf-Boot-tp4042437p4042534.html
>>> Sent from the Karaf - Dev mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>>>
>>
>> --
>> Jean-Baptiste Onofré
>> [hidden email] <http:///user/SendEmail.jtp?type=node&node=4042537&i=0>
>> http://blog.nanthrax.net
>> Talend - http://www.talend.com
>>
>>
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> --
> View this message in context: http://karaf.922171.n3.nabble.com/DISCUSSION-Karaf-Boot-tp4042437p4042538.html
> Sent from the Karaf - Dev mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>

-- 
Jean-Baptiste Onofré
jbonofre@apache.org
http://blog.nanthrax.net
Talend - http://www.talend.com

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