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From Serge Huber <shu...@jahia.com>
Subject Re: [PROPOSAL] Karaf marketing
Date Thu, 12 Nov 2015 10:04:29 GMT
Actually I wasn’t talking about the Spring Framework, for which I see no use inside of Karaf,
quite the opposite :) 

I was merely talking about all the other libraries that they offer here : http://spring.io/projects

At my company we get the request almost daily on how to integrate these (or others) with OSGi
bundles. People are ready to try, but they get easily scared when they can’t get it to work.
And usually it’s not that difficult but it’s beyond their current experience level.


> On 12 nov. 2015, at 11:00, Christian Schneider <chris@die-schneider.net> wrote:
> I also think that using spring is not such a good idea in OSGi. You are right that it
offers a lot of stuff that people want to reuse but I think the problems would outweigh the
> So I think the better way is to show how to do enterprise development in a clean OSGi
ready way and show the migration path.
> I have started this with a tutorial about using CDI/JEE annotations for blueprint:
> http://www.liquid-reality.de/x/C4DK
> It leverages the fact that most people use spring with annotations today. So the actual
spring part can be quite small if you do it well. So if you use the CDI and JEE annoations
in spring it is quite easy to migrate to blueprint.
> The example uses the aries blueprint-maven-plugin. It allows to just continue using the
standard annotations that also work in spring.
> I did a migration from spring to OSGi and blueprint for a customer some months ago and
the plugin made this so much easier. So I could create another tutorial that shows how to
actually migrate from spring to blueprint in some steps. It is still not a trivial task but
I think the result can be a better application than using spring dm in OSGi.
> Christian
> On 12.11.2015 10:42, Serge Huber wrote:
>> I agree with you Achim but I was mostly proposing that because basically lots of
developers want to use Spring librairies to avoid writing code themselves. So unless we can
provide a replacement for all they are building I think we should have some kind of way of
helping them get bootstrapped.
>> Maybe this could be a seperate project outside of Karaf ?
>> In the meantime I keep trying to convince the Pivotal guys every chance I get to
see the light and come back to OSGi and embrace Karaf :)
>> cheers,
>>   Serge…
>>> On 12 nov. 2015, at 10:40, Achim Nierbeck <bcanhome@googlemail.com> wrote:
>>> Hi Serge,
>>> one note about the spring idea ...
>>> right now spring isn't a nice osgi citizen anymore.
>>> So I fear Karaf will get blamed for Spring issues around Spring running
>>> inside OSGi.
>>> That's why I would keep away from that.
>>> regards, Achim
>>> 2015-11-12 10:32 GMT+01:00 Serge Huber <shuber@jahia.com>:
>>>> Hello,
>>>>> On 12 nov. 2015, at 07:54, Jean-Baptiste Onofré <jb@nanthrax.net>
>>>>> Hi all,
>>>>> I already discussed with some of you about my plan on Karaf marketing.
>>>>> I think clearly that we had a great project, a great team, a great tool,
>>>> but we're not really good in term of promotion and marketing.
>>>> Yes Karaf is clearly one of the hidden gems of the ASF, and if marketing
>>>> it properly can make it more visible and people understand it’s value
>>>> better, everybody wins.
>>>>> Especially, we have to be clear in the message and the projects that
>>>> deliver. For instance, again, I'm sure that karaf-boot is a huge step
>>>> forward in Karaf adoption. I'm not sure that all users are aware and know
>>>> the purpose of Cellar, Cave, Decanter, and even some Karaf areas.
>>>> Yes, and at the same time positioning Karaf as compatible with lots of
>>>> technologies would help. For example tell everyone that they can realize
>>>> their projects in Karaf that use Spring technologies would be helpful, not
>>>> making them have to choose between Karaf or Spring, but rather just use
>>>> Karaf as the runtime and build on top of it using Spring librairies. Of
>>>> course this requires that we provide features for all of these.
>>>>> In order to improve the Karaf marketing area, I would like to propose
>>>> the following plan:
>>>>> 1. More professional website
>>>>> I think we have to improve both the content and the look'n feel of the
>>>> website.
>>>>> In term of content, I think it makes sense to not emphasize on OSGi.
>>>> fact that Karaf runs OSGi is not really interesting for most of end users
>>>> (of course, it is for advanced/power users). We have to explain that Karaf
>>>> is modern and multi-purpose container. More over, with karaf-boot, it
>>>> becomes also a bootstrapper and "run anywhere" paradigm platform.
>>>>> So, I started a new website, changing the look'n feel (to give a more
>>>> professional shape) and the content (changing the marketing message):
>>>>>      http://maven.nanthrax.net/goodies/karaf/site/
>>>> Looks really good, there are a few images that have resizing issues but
>>>> that’s a detail. One message I also repeat often about Karaf is that it’s
>>>> the basic runtime you would end up with if you started a project from
>>>> scratch, so why not use that as a start instead of re-implementing it.
>>>> Also, at JavaOne Oracle was talking about Jigsaw a lot, so maybe we can
>>>> capitalize on this by saying that this is a module system that is proven
>>>> and future-ready. I like the enterprise positioning, clearly in opposition
>>>> of not-yet-ready-for-production platforms such as docker or in some regards
>>>> Spring-boot :)
>>>>> I will complete the website today (some cleanup, other pages than the
>>>> home one, etc), but it already gives you an idea.
>>>>> 2. New guides/documentation
>>>>> I'm working on the improvement in term of content of the documentation.
>>>> Especially, the dev guide will be more straight forward, providing recipes
>>>> for users.
>>>>> All guides will use asciidoc now. You can already see the kind of output
>>>> on the Decanter guide:
>>>>>      http://karaf.apache.org/manual/decanter/latest-1/index.html
>>>>> All Karaf guides (and subprojects) will be rendered in a popup using
>>>> such look'n feel.
>>>> Looks good but it would be fantastic if it was also responsive so that it
>>>> can be used on tablets and or phablets :)
>>>>> 3. Meetups
>>>>> I plan to organize a Karaf Meetup beginning of 2016. I have some
>>>> sponsors in mind. The purpose is to meet most of Karaf users, devs, and
>>>> enthusiasts.
>>>>> I will give you more details soon.
>>>> Sounds fantastic. If you need help with the sponsoring I could try to talk
>>>> to people here.
>>>>> Thoughts ?
>>>> Love the approach, the old website really needed revamping, and this is
>>>> definitely a great step forward !
>>>> cheers,
>>>>  Serge…
>>> -- 
>>> Apache Member
>>> Apache Karaf <http://karaf.apache.org/> Committer & PMC
>>> OPS4J Pax Web <http://wiki.ops4j.org/display/paxweb/Pax+Web/> Committer
>>> Project Lead
>>> blog <http://notizblog.nierbeck.de/>
>>> Co-Author of Apache Karaf Cookbook <http://bit.ly/1ps9rkS>
>>> Software Architect / Project Manager / Scrum Master
> -- 
> Christian Schneider
> http://www.liquid-reality.de
> Open Source Architect
> http://www.talend.com

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