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From Jean-Baptiste Onofré ...@nanthrax.net>
Subject Re: bnd files in Decanter Project
Date Fri, 12 Feb 2016 12:07:54 GMT
Maybe yes. Not sure. It's not obvious to me that using bnd files has an 
impact on end users.

For instance, for Decanter, users just do feature:install, however the 
bundles have been created.

Maybe I'm wrong.

Regards
JB

On 02/12/2016 01:02 PM, Achim Nierbeck wrote:
> Sorry JB I think you are wrong with this perception. A lot of the dev
> decisions do influence users, especially the ones were people build on top.
>
> sent from mobile device
> Am 12.02.2016 12:53 nachm. schrieb "Jean-Baptiste Onofré" <jb@nanthrax.net>:
>
>> Hi David,
>>
>> For now, we are talking on the dev side of Karaf: from an user
>> perspective, it doesn't change anything (an user doesn't have to know bnd
>> to use Karaf).
>>
>> Anyway, projects using Karaf can still use the configuration they want:
>> maven-bundle-plugin without bnd files, bndtools, or whatever.
>>
>> Regards
>> JB
>>
>> On 02/12/2016 12:50 PM, David Daniel wrote:
>>
>>> I have had the same experience as Milen and Christian but I think I come
>>> to
>>> a different conclusion.  I originally came to karaf because of the easy
>>> entrance into OSGI and we have a Maven build process that I could not move
>>> from.  I think many other people come to karaf for those same reasons.
>>> Here is a conversation I had the other day where karaf was primarily being
>>> used for its build process and its tight integration of maven with
>>> features
>>>
>>> https://groups.google.com/a/saiku.meteorite.bi/forum/#!topic/dev/4uiWj1g2EU0
>>> I think even bnd is getting away from having to put things inside of the
>>> bnd file and making sure you can configure osgi in other ways (Example
>>> would be making classes ending in impl private and using annotations to
>>> determine exports and imports through references.  Even those elements you
>>> discussed previously such as runtime properties and system packages are
>>> more for the bndrun files so that bndtools can package and launch
>>> appropriately.  I generally keep them out of the bnd file and let maven
>>> handle those elements for my project.  If you want to maintain a bndrun
>>> file to test and use with bndtools that is different than requireing a bnd
>>> file.  My general feeling is that almost nothing will need to go into the
>>> .bnd file soon (See this conversation
>>> https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/bndtools-users/yV_B5B1cU3k) so
>>> karaf should not require users to understand what it is.  I think it will
>>> be optional soon enough so it is better not to require it now.  On the
>>> other hand if developers like bnd tools then let them include an optional
>>> bndrun file that they are responsible for maintaining.  I think with java
>>> 9
>>> alot of people will come to OSGI for the tooling and it will be important
>>> to ease them into the OSGI build process as simply as possible.
>>>
>>> On Fri, Feb 12, 2016 at 6:28 AM, Christian Schneider <
>>> chris@die-schneider.net> wrote:
>>>
>>> On 12.02.2016 11:46, Milen Dyankov wrote:
>>>>
>>>> For the record (in case you find some public evidence of me arguing the
>>>>> opposite) some time ago I was totally against using bnd.bnd files. After
>>>>> being kind of forced to do it for a while, I realized it doesn't really
>>>>> make any difference in the effort that it takes to maintain those and
at
>>>>> the same time provides clearer separation of concerns. So I changed my
>>>>> mind
>>>>> :) !
>>>>>
>>>>> Interestingly I have the same experience. I first hit bnd.bnd files in
>>>> some pax projects and thought they were a strange way to configure the
>>>> OSGi
>>>> setup. So at this time I was also rather against it. The more I worked on
>>>> it in pax and also while I did some experiments in bndtools the more I
>>>> liked the
>>>> style of bnd files. At some point then I migrated the Aries JPA project
>>>> to
>>>> it and I really like the result.
>>>>
>>>> Christian
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Christian Schneider
>>>> http://www.liquid-reality.de
>>>>
>>>> Open Source Architect
>>>> http://www.talend.com
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>> --
>> Jean-Baptiste Onofré
>> jbonofre@apache.org
>> http://blog.nanthrax.net
>> Talend - http://www.talend.com
>>
>

-- 
Jean-Baptiste Onofré
jbonofre@apache.org
http://blog.nanthrax.net
Talend - http://www.talend.com

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